Unschooling
Submitted by Mae 13 on Fri, 10/02/2009 - 21:22
Hello all, I am an unschooler! Unschooling is the radical educational philosophy that children learn best when not incarcerated in a traditional educational environment. I would be happy to answer any questions you might have, as this is something that I am truly passionate about, and as a whole, the Do Something community tends to encourage children and young adults to stay in school, a philosophy that I do not necessarily agree with.
There are some truly excellent quotes about this particular philosophy, but let me leave you with some of my all-time favorites: "If you saw a monkey in the forest,would you ask it why it didn't want to be in a zoo?"
"The truly educated never graduate!"
"Grades are for meat and eggs, not children!"
So what did you do to get an education?
Through life! I live my life, and I learn from that!! There are hundreds of things I do, so it's not like I just sit around all day. When you get your "education" you are being told what the industry wants you to be told, therefore, in my opinion, it is not a proper education, you are not necessarily learning the truth.
So I get my education from life!!
That's true. Textbooks leave out alot of what really happened..
Right, and there's really no point to that! That's why I get so upset when I hear people saying that dropping out of school is the worst thing you could possibly do, because it's not!!
If you have really learned from life, then answer this question (without using Google might help):
What are the steps to getting a job?
I sure hope you don't cheat and look it up. If you do then you will know (even if we don't) that you don't know something as basic as this, because you dropped out. If you say you will never need this in your life, think again, because the time will come where you have to get a job, and having it say on your resume that you were a dropout isn't really going to secure one for you.
Actually,and I hate to correct you,it will never say on my resume that I dropped out, because I didn't. I never went to school, therefore, I am technically not a dropout. But even if I was, I would be completely proud.
Also, even if I did drop out, it wouldn't actually have to say on my resume, there's a little known fact for you. :-)
I am telling you something that is quite contrary to everything you have ever "learned" in your entire life, so I do not expect you to be understanding, however, I do expect you to be polite. Even if you disagree with my opinion, that does not give you the right to be rude, because that's cyber bullying.
I am not going to answer your question, not because I don't know, but because I refuse to be tested. If I did answer your question, you wouldn't know that I didn't look it up, so it wouldn't prove anything either way. I don't intend on working for corporate America, and hope never to have to work in a mainstream job.
Although having the steps of applying for a job memorized might be top on your priority list, my priority list is quite different. Instead of spending my time learning pointless facts, I spend a lot of time on activism.
Also, I finished the manuscript of my first novel on November 18th, and am looking into self-publishing. I'm really excited!
Anyway, I saw what you said in the vegetarian discussion about not reading posts when they are too long, so I guess I will leave it here, even though I have plenty more to say, both to you,and on this subject in general.
You don't need to go to school to have an "education" and to be sagacious. I can only hope that when as I get older I am not judged on the amount of intelligence I have but rather the person I am.
I completely agree! It is not how many years of school you have endured, but what kind of person you are inside. What is truly valuable is not whether or not you can recite dates of WW 1 battles, but whether or not you are kind, loving, compassionate...
Congrats on finishing your first novel! I love the idea of unschooling- obviously a lot more responsibility would be on the parents- but it sounds like a great way to develop a passion for learning and form your own views of the world. Keep being an activist!
cipherqueen,
Thank you so much!
There is absolutely more responsibility on parents, but there's also more responsibility on me. In my opinion, parents should be more responsible for their offspring. When you send a child to school everyday, and see them on weekends, and mornings and evenings, you really leave their upbringing to others, which doesn't really seem fair to anyone.
Being unschooled is really a wonderful way to create world views and opinions of your own, independent not only of teachers and peers, but of society.
I plan to continue my activism for a long time, thank you for the encouragement! I am so proud of my novel!
lately I have been feeling a strong desire to be an inspirational speaker, on a variety of subjects, not least my dyslexia, which is very severe. There are so many things that make me unique, I would love to share them with the world!
I left public schools in grade six to live in Guatemala and I did correspondence courses since then. I think that in one year I learned more about life than I did the entire time I was in school.I love the freedom and the variety of my education. It is so personal and unique. I could take my laptop to the park or the lake and do my school there if I wanted to. What I learn from my courses is complemented by the culture and lifestyle I am immersed in. I go to the beach everyday. I know how to explain a scientific concept to someone in Spanish. I am really good at computers and creating websites. Honestly, I see myself as a well educated teen.
vote for dosomething.org so that it can win the webby awards at http://webby.aol.com/category_groups/living/categories/youth
i dont like school(mainly cuz im smarter than the teachers) but there are somethings tht you cant learn on your own. like i could say y=9x^3+4x^2-5x-12. and you wouldnt understand a single thing. there are some tht couldn't teach u a whole lot. but being able to understand some thing as confusing as tht problem and wut its used for. thts y we need a school education, or at least some1 tht knos wut they are doing.
aw , dude.. thats not cool saying that youre smarter than the teachers.. educators work hard! dont hate, appreciate :)
I agree with you Mae 13! I have unschooled for a while now. I am graduating this year...and I would have to say, unschooling is great! I did, take some math by books though, so I homeschooled that part.
You are right... unschooling, you find your own place in this world. We live in the 'real' world! I get so tired of graduation speaches: "Tonight, you graduate, you leave this school for the real world!"
Uh, I've been living in the real world since I was born.
Living in the real world! Because of unschooling, I love school, I love to learn! I don't think I would like learning if I had someone breathing down my neck to pass a test, or place with other students.
When people or most, I speak to about unschooling...they stare at me, "Say what? You don't do textbooks? You learn by living life?" Yup, I learned history by being a Youth Interpreter at a Living History museum for 5 years. I learned home ec, by cooking and cleaning for my family. I learned Spanish by living aboard in Guatemala for 2 months! Social Studies made an impact on me, I am a Modern Day Abolitionist, Modern Day Slavery is a passion of mine. I planned an awareness/fundraiser event, and spoke publicaly at 18 yrs of age. Brittish Lit- became my life for a 4 months as we practiced up for a Pride and Prejudice play, that was performed before 300 people. Language became a joy instead of a bore, I started/and co wrote my own magazine at 14. Biology became my job as I worked in my family own business. I didn't need to take health to learn the basic stuff, just live.
I love unschooling! I am an unschooled graduate!
Thanks for the unschooling post, people know about homeschooling but not unschooling...it's pretty far out. Peace and Love! _Caitlin
unschooling? this is new to me. Recently i left my mothers to live with my grandparents. I went to a school called Rodriguez PREP Academy. It didnt cost money, you just had to have C or higher averages. As an A student, this school was the best. The teachers were AMAZING, and there were maybe only 3 fights the whole year. the kids were different but really great people. The school was also based on Multiple Intelligences. http://www.thomasarmstrong.com/multiple_intelligences.htm for basic info on M.I. Now i go to Clement Middle School in Redlands. This is the WORST school ever. I'v gotten my first F(s) and my second C in my entire life(grade repot wise)! there are fights nearly everyday. And people wonder why there is so much crime in the world. It scares me to think of others that are fate to that life, all from poor education. But I wouldnt drop out of school for anything. I believe education is the most important thing we humans have. But i also believe there is more to education than going to school. People should "open up their eyes" to the differences and possibilities we have, can even make, through all forms of education. So dont hate on any form of education. If anything, get as many different kinds of education you can. As i say, You must be a student to be a teacher.
So unschooling is no school at all? I guess that's cool, but that lacks a structured and disciplinary education,and colleges and jobs aren't looking at where you "unschooled" -when you go to school,there are things you just can't learn anyplace else-that's just the way it is. And just because you are unschooled doesn't make you free spirited,though I understand how that could be-that's determined by YOU, not your schooling method.
Look Up :)
I like the idea of it but i doubt my mom would let me leave school. Sometimes i feel that what we learn in school is kinda unnecessary. I just feel like in this day people look for what kind of education you have.
I have to ask..
If you are unschooled and you find it to be the best for you and yet you have never attended a school before, how would you possibly have any way of comparing the two? Suggesting that having no regulation is better than the traditional education system without having experienced it is very closed minded. This idea of unschooling is not new. People have attempted it for years. I am proud to say that I have had the opportunity to be educated in a public school system as well as completing my degree at a private university... and guess what, I have had tons of time to be apart of the real world and live out my dreams at the same time.
I feel that I have learned more throughout my years in school than I ever could have on my own. Traditional education offers you many real world opportunities and teaches you different social skills that would be very difficult to obtain if you have never had that type of education before. I have had close friends who were home schooled and they simply ended up understanding and reacting to the world differently because they worked at their own pace, which didn't always benefit them.
With that said, since I differ from you and have never been unschooled, I cannot make a full diagnosis of the two, but by attempting to learn on your own, I truly believe you are shorting yourself on opportunities that don't always come along when you're on your own. Sure you might have more time on your hands to take a road trip and experience a different culture or brush up on some hobbies that you find interesting, but without a proper education (as in picking a skill and looking to learn from other people who are perhaps more knowledgeable than you) chances are that you will not make a sufficient living for yourself because very few companies would feel comfortable hiring someone who is proclaimed to be self taught. And if you are thinking you will be your own boss and you don't need to worry about a traditional job... more power to you... but without having networked throughout your years and without having made the proper connections with people in the fields you might be interested in, that is a slim chance too.
No, you don't necessarily need a college education but you just cannot be successful with the mindset that you don't need to learn something you are not interested in learning. Also, it shows a lot of character to commit to something like high school and college. It really builds character and when there are other people relying on or believing in you, amazing outcomes can happen that benefit you greatly.
I get the sense that you hate the idea of "being tested" when in fact, life itself is a test and by having the mindset that you can figure it out yourself, really is not all that mature. Granted, you could possibly be the smartest person in the world, but I think it is dangerous to suggest that this unschooling trend should be advertised to catch on.
Consider these points if most of the population chose to not attend school...
1-The job market would be worse off with the countless amount of unemployed teachers.
2-So many people would be without jobs (not only teachers, but those employed through schools)
3-Most certainly not everyone should be self taught.
no one would want to end up with a doctor someday who googled "how to give a heart transplant..."
4-People with special needs would suffer the most because without proper care and support they would not be able to learn as effectively on their own as they could have with an educator.
5-And lastly I truly think you should consider how too much freedom could effect a young person. Just because you feel you grew up fine doesn't mean everyone will be able to achieve the same results, just like not everyone who attends public school do their best (in which case there are so many other options like private school or even home school).
In conclusion, if you're happy, great... but there is more to life than doing what you want and are happy with. I don't think I can be convinced that not being provided with a regulated education is an acceptable plan for our society, as I am sure you cannot be convinced to agree with what i believe. But I am not commenting to persuade, just think of it as a lesson in communication... communication with people who might often oppose your views and how to learn to rebuttal appropriately. Of course the public school systems are not perfect and I defiantly have had my difficulties at times, but they are not so hindering that everyone should quit supporting traditional education all together. After all, unschooling is most certainly far from a practical and realistic plan for ones future... especially a societies future.
I would like to point out that one of your favorite quotes is the saying ""the truly educated never graduate" and I couldn't agree more... you always have to keep learning even after graduation. Of course you took it in the literal sense that it was not meant to be taken, which is "you don't need to graduate to find education" which is fine, but if you think of it that way... how could you have graduated if you never began? There are more ways than simply self exploration to attain an "education" just as there are more ways to learn than reading a textbook but without a balance it just doesn't work.
You will most definitely take offense to what I am saying but it is not being said from a hateful place. These are just my views... but they are well rounded views and definitely educated ones... real world, self taught, and traditional.
ashypoo,
I'm not sure when you left this comment for me, because I took a long hiatus from this website due to cyber bullying, and just returned tonight. Hopefully I'll be able to cover everything in your post, and I don’t have much time before I go to bed, so here goes.
I would firstly like to point out that if I hadn’t have heard every one of these arguments before I would not have made this discussion. A person must be extraordinarily sure of themselves, and of their philosophies before they open themselves up to criticism, slander, hatred, and humor of the Internet, and I am therefore simply repeating to you what I have repeated to hundreds before you, and I know that any rebuttals you will have to my rebuttals will be nothing new to me either, trust me, I’ve heard it all.
I would first like to say that I found you’re post to be extraordinarily eloquent and respectful, and it is that reason that I will respond to it in full length.
I’m not saying that public education does not have its place, different strokes for different folks. All I am saying is that whenever the subject of unschooling comes up, everyone has something bad to say about it, when it’s simply another form of education. I think that grade school, middle school, and high school are particularly pointless, specifically in my situation, I definitely think that college and other educational courses have their place, not only in society, but eventually maybe even in my life. Although you are correct in saying that I have never experienced school, and therefore cannot make an accurate diagnosis of what it is precisely like to be in school, I can determine whether or not it is for me, and through many hours of research, interviews, and, well, life, I can say fairly accurately what it is like, and how I would respond if I was put in that situation, and a way to make the situation better. It’s like saying no one can decide what they think they would like to do for a career Intel they’ve done it. That is an entirely accurate thing to say, but maybe it’s not very convenient, logical, or, let’s face it, normal. Most people have some idea of what they would like to do for a career, even if it’s only the slightest idea, before they go out and try to make that job happen. If somebody said “I would like to be a veterinary doctor,” would you say, “you can’t know that until you’ve become a fully trained doctor, that’s very close minded of you!” Of course you wouldn’t, you’d say, “that’s awesome! Where are you going to go to school for that?” I definitely think that public education works for some people, but it certainly doesn’t work for everyone, although America, England and Australia ( I can’t really speak for the educational systems of other countries) certainly expect it to work for everyone, and if it doesn’t work for you and you leave, you are considered a lazy, uneducated, unmotivated waste, that doesn’t seem fair, does it?
I’m glad that you feel that “education” has offered you some of the opportunities you would not have been able to gain on your own, nothing that is not true. I absolutely think that learning from others is very important, and I never wish to be misunderstood as saying otherwise. As far as homeschooled friends of yours, I do not exactly think that homeschooling is a good idea, but that’s a whole different debate. I would simply like to say that homeschooling and unschooling are very different, and if you would like to discuss homeschooling with me, I would be more than happy to, but in a debate about unschooling, it’s really not relevant.
In regards to something that you mentioned earlier that I forgot to respond to, yes, people have been unschooling for a long time, and I never said that unschooling was a new idea.
I find your definition of “proper education” to be very interesting, you said that a proper education was: “picking a skill and looking to learn from other people who are perhaps more knowledgeable than you,” by your definition, I obviously have a very proper education. By this point I kind of want to continue to write back to you, but if I wanted to I could easily close the case here, saying that shadowing someone at a job, or sitting down and talking to someone, by your own very definition, is obviously a proper education, and therefore, I could say that I find proper education by your definition to be one of the most important things on this planet, learning from one another. Whether it’s your grandmother, your sister, your brother or your uncle, your next-door neighbor, the man at the casino, or the woman behind the desk, whether they are 1 or 100, I find that learning from other people is extraordinarily valuable.
Furthermore, I certainly have networked with people in my area of interest, and I do not intend to work for a manager in the traditional sense of the word. I’m opening my own theater company with my family, and we already have more than enough interest to get started.
I would once again like to reiterate the fact that I have said all this before to countless others, most recently with a series of YouTube comments that ended with my debate partner simply stating “ur moms a dyke EW,” and then refusing to write to me again.
Who ever said there was no one relying on, or believing in me? I agree that amazing things can happen if you know that people are counting on you, I think you should definitely read my earlier posts, as you seem to have a lot of misconceptions about me and my beliefs.
No, I definitely don’t like the idea of having a complex and elaborate human mind forced into a small box, with no room for movement, AKA, standardized testing. I disagree that life is a test, and would debate that it is more of a puzzle. On a test, you either pass or you fail, life doesn’t work that way, it’s a puzzle, you don’t have to complete all of it, you only have to do what makes you comfortable, you can’t fail it, but you can’t pass it either. The reason why you try to complete a test is so that the teacher will give you a good grade, the reason why you complete a puzzle is so that you can have a sense of satisfaction.
I also never said that unschooling should be “marketed to the public,” because I personally don’t believe that any kind of education should be mandatory, and I would find it downright creepy if people were forced to not attend school.
As far as your bullet list, I will address them in order:
1-the job market could definitely be worse off, but if everyone was unschooled, I’m sure more jobs would appear because of that, more mentoring programs would be put in place, and FAR more home businesses would appear, which would be EXTRAORDINARILY beneficial to the job market. And in any case, should we keep the world in school because we want to keep our teachers employed?
2-I believe I already covered this point.
3-Of course not everyone should be self-taught! That would be ridiculous! Not everyone “should be” anything! I think college can be very useful, and I agree that there are MANY professions where college is absolutely 100% necessary. I have nothing against college, in fact, I think that all forms of public education should be set up more like college.
4-I am a “people with special needs,” so I both agree with, and disagree with your point. I have not had “an educator,” yet I seem to be perfectly fine, although I agree that the mentally ill do need special care, and I never suggested we should take that away, I never suggested that people in certain fields, if not people in most fields should continue to be trained just as always.
5-as I said before, not everyone would thrive as an unschooler, I would never say a thing like that, because I know it is simply not true. But as I’ve said before, not everyone thrives in the public school education, and if they don’t, they are judged extraordinarily harshly for that.
I am glad that you did not comment to convince, and I do not comment to convince you either. I would thank you for my “lesson in communication,” but as I’ve stated before, you are not doing me any big favors, I have this conversation daily, no one asks any new questions, so I never have to come up with new answers, which is a pity, because I love a fresh new debate.
I feel that it is close minded of you to say that unschooling is not a good plan for one’s future, as it happens to be a very good plan if you want a college education, as there are certain colleges that specifically seek out those of us who have been unschooled.
I believe our system of public education needs a major makeover, but before we do that we have some serious governmental and foreign relations policies problems to work out, that are a literal life and death situation for thousands. My goal is not to bring unschooling to the attention of the American government, but more to bring it to the attention of those who the government claims to serve.
Ahhh, “The truly educated never graduate,” yet again my friend, you jump to conclusions without being sure. Did I ever say what I interpreted that quote to mean? I think it means both. I believe it means both “A person can be educated about life without attending college” AND “Even though you have finished your degree, never stop learning.”
On a more serious note, if you saw a monkey in the woods, WOULD you ask it is why it didn’t want to be in the zoo?
And sadly, even in your last paragraph you jump to conclusions. I have not taken offense at all of what you have said, but I have taken offense, if only slightly, at your audacious assumptions, outlandish conclusions, and slight air of superiority. But overall, I found your post to be well thought, and well worded.
I do hope you will respond to everything I said, and I hope you’ll think of it as a lesson in communication, a lesson in respect for those younger than you, a lesson in education, a lesson in alternative worldviews, a lesson in social studies, a lesson in democracy, a lesson in grammar, and lastly, and certainly most importantly, a lesson in unschooling!
Those quotes you used are selfish of you. Children in third world countries would DIE to have the kind of schooling we have in the states. You're basically telling us that school is overrated. Oh, and I go to a public school and I am intelligent and will graduate with scholarships. How do you plan on going to college? Getting a degree? Think about it before you blurt stuff like this out on the Internet.
Also, school gets you prepared for the real world. Unless you indulge yourself in volunteering and social activities, you won't be ready for what's coming at you.
britbritxo,
I don't like cooked spinach eater, is that selfish of me? Just because a kid in a Third World country wants it doesn't mean I have to. I'm sure there are plenty of kids in third world countries who would want my jeans that were a little too small, the greens in the spring vegetable mix that I'm not so fond of, and the cookie I was too full to finish yesterday. Just because someone else wants it doesn't mean I have to want it.
I don't think there's such a thing as a selfish quotation, except maybe "The universe revolves around me," however, fortunately, I just made that quote up right now.
The thing is (in regards to school preparing you for the real world), I am already in the real world. I don't need any preparation because I'm already there.
Hello all,
I am glad to hear there are so many intelligent people out there! The education system is inept in many respects, but there are some good points we must not overlook... However, I would really like to hear what you have to say regarding this:
Many underprivileged children lack the resources necessary to obtain a "proper" education. What would you recommend be established in order to help them obtain an "education" without a formal education? Millions of children around the world do not have access to formal education due to financial circumstances or social position. What can they do to learn from the world?
I honestly believe you all may have some very valuable knowledge on this question. I would really appreciate the input.
Thank you!
Wish (World Illiteracy Stops Here)
Hey wish,
What an awesome question! I think this question is deep and complex on many levels, so I'm really sorry if this post gets a bit long!
I think the main point of being unschooled is having a supportive and loving home environment; having parents that are willing to give you wonderful experiences is a key part, which is what makes your question complicated. For example, I am a huge activist for Darfur, and a huge advocate for unschooling, yet I support work to build schools, as I know the only way the oppressed civilians will be able to move beyond their situation is through what I,unfortunately, would call progress. (As an environmentalist, I am very much against progress generally). I think unschooling relies so heavily on a supportive home, that it, without a doubt, won't work for everyone, and certainly might not even work for a majority. In those situations where parents are not willing to trust their children/don't have the money to have a parent stay home/are not motivated/don't have the resources (as an impoverished communities), or have any other situation preventing them from unschooling their children, a more traditional method is necessary. And now we delve into the sticky topic of educational reform. Seeing as there is more than likely a majority of those who WILL be educated by the public system, regardless of their parental situation, our public system needs some major reforms; this at least seems to be agreed upon across the board. If our curriculums were willing to take a more unschooled approach to the classroom (i.e. hands on learning, trusting the student, individualized education etc.) the world could have a more open mindset toward what "education" and "learning" really are.
This is one of my favorite topics, so I could literally go on for pages, but I think I will limit to this for now. Thanks for the great thought-provoking question! seriously, I think it's the best question I have been asked on this website so far!