ushersgirl, what you may perceive as true doesn't mean it is true for everyone. So don't tell other people what to believe.

there are so many people adding to this post, i hate it when people automatically suspect that im a terrorist, i mean, get real. and, so many people have the wrong idea of why we went into this war w/ iraq....my friend is all like, " the iraqis were gonna kill us all" ( im not accusing anyone of anything),

Say anything you'd like about your religion, its not offensive at all, and everyone's religion is equal so who are you going to offend?

Well Katie,

im a muslim.i would love to write about this but i dont want to offend anyone. i personally know i have been brought up in the truth. Can i give u an example? If u pick up two Qu'rans and flip to the same surah ( i think they call it chapters? or maybe sermons...same part.. or start to at the same place) it will be exactly the same.GARUNTEED (spcheck). There is a lot more i want to write but i would like feedback...

thanx

Okay is there anything I can do to help you out? Have you ever had a "Bible Study" with someone? Thats how I was taught was through Bible Studies, and I enjoyed them very much (still do) What sort of things are you finding questionable? and another thing, Satan is NOT a fiction character, he's as real as you and I are, but like Jehovah, we cannot see Satan. Jehovah........Wait have you gotten to the part about the flood? Or are you still in the very beginning? Jehovah is a loving God, which may be hard to believe, I'll tell you what, try reading the book Learn From The Great Teacher, as well as the Bible, this book tells you of Jesus' teachings and goes along with whats in the Bible. There are many Bible Scriptures in here. This also will probably give you some more knowledge of Jehovah, and how he is.

The bible I'm reading is the new international version. It gives "helps" like if a word that has been translated has more than 1 meaning, stuff like that. I have also been double checking with the scriptures as written on watchtower.org and everything seems to be matching up.

I am going to finish reading the bible, but the questionable things I'm finding will doubtfully be brought up and changed later. I am keeping what you said about it being a complete work in mind though.

I guess since I've started reading it myself and seeing the stories on my own that were referred to earlier, smallcoins' answers aren't satisfying me anymore. My questions are only partially acknowledged.
For example, what about the tree of life?

Also, I'm having trouble with the idea that it is a complete work, as Aaron said it was. The stories are told in a very straightforward way. They leave the answer to the question "why" up for grabs.

rubyDuby Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, I read the story of Adam and Eve, but I'm
> looking at it through eyes that have no real
> beliefs. I do not have the fear of God guiding me.
> I think its great that people like you have
> something so strong and seemingly peaceful and
> undestructive to believe in to make this life
> easier. I just do not believe that it is possible
> to believe the bible is true without having blind
> faith.
>
> Your religion interprets the bible. It does not
> simply live by the words as you say. For example,
> you blame satan in the original Adam and Eve
> experiment, when in fact there is no mention of
> Satan in the bible. It states that the serpent
> told Eve to eat the apple and the serpent is the
> most crafty of God's creatures. I'm only up to
> Genesis 30, but still no mention of satan or hell.
> Furthermore, you said God told them if they eat
> the the forbidden fruit they will die the day they
> eat it. They did not die after eating the fruit.
> The serpent told them if they eat the fruit their
> eyes would be opened to what's good and bad. You
> said this was a lie, but in fact their eyes were
> opened.
>
> God does many destructive and questionable things.
> These things I would describe as experiments. Your
> religion blames these bad things on Satan, a
> ficticious character, the fall guy.
>
> I do not see love, justice, beauty, or hope in the
> scriptures. I wish I did, but it's just not there.
> Maybe once I get to Jesus's life things will
> change.
>
>
> Is anybody else with different beliefs reading
> this anymore? I'm curious to learn about different
> religions.

Hi Ruby,
You bring up a good point about the serpent, But it is really Satan who told Eve to eat the fruit THROUGH the serpent. I would like to know what kind of Bible you're reading, whether its a King James or what? Could you please tell me? As it does make a big difference because many of the Bible's today have taken Jehovah's name out and have replaced it with "Lord" or "Heavenly Father".

ruby,

The benefit of reading the entire Bible is that we get to see God's overall personality and purpose. Certainly if we were to just focus on isolated areas of the Scriptures we will get an obscured view of God's personality. As you mentioned, you are in the very beginning of the Bible.

The apostle Paul wrote, "Quit being fashioned after this system of things, but be transformed by making your mind over, that you may prove to yourselves the good and acceptable and perfect will of God." Romans 12:2

So worshippers of God are required to reason on the facts, and to prove to themselves why what they believe is indeed the truth.

You brought up some valid questions and conerns, to which there are answers. But before we proceed to answering them, I'm curious what hope you have now. Do you think hope is something that can be found in this world?

Yes, I read the story of Adam and Eve, but I'm looking at it through eyes that have no real beliefs. I do not have the fear of God guiding me. I think its great that people like you have something so strong and seemingly peaceful and undestructive to believe in to make this life easier. I just do not believe that it is possible to believe the bible is true without having blind faith.

Your religion interprets the bible. It does not simply live by the words as you say. For example, you blame satan in the original Adam and Eve experiment, when in fact there is no mention of Satan in the bible. It states that the serpent told Eve to eat the apple and the serpent is the most crafty of God's creatures. I'm only up to Genesis 30, but still no mention of satan or hell. Furthermore, you said God told them if they eat the the forbidden fruit they will die the day they eat it. They did not die after eating the fruit. The serpent told them if they eat the fruit their eyes would be opened to what's good and bad. You said this was a lie, but in fact their eyes were opened.

God does many destructive and questionable things. These things I would describe as experiments. Your religion blames these bad things on Satan, a ficticious character, the fall guy.

I do not see love, justice, beauty, or hope in the scriptures. I wish I did, but it's just not there. Maybe once I get to Jesus's life things will change.

Is anybody else with different beliefs reading this anymore? I'm curious to learn about different religions.

Good to see this is still going on. As Aaron said, we're all students. I'm still learning as well.

ruby,

It is very good you're concerned with fairness and love. These things are lacking in the world today, and these are the things humankind needs. It's great to hear you're looking into the Bible.

To fully understand the biblical accounts you made mention of, it is necessary to understand the situation of Adam and Eve in the very beginning.

Jehovah created the man and woman perfect. They had perfect minds. They were placed in a beautiful garden. They had an abundance not only to meet their needs, but to satisfy all their desires. All that God required of them was obedience. Since God gave them the gift of free will, their obedience would be proof of their love for God, their Creator.

Jehovah warned them about the consequences of disobedience. In Genesis 2:16, 17 we read: "And Jehovah God also laid this command upon the man: From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die."

The human family was designed to multiply and live peacefully and happily in a paradise garden. All they had to do was remain obedient to the spiritual laws of their Creator. This obedience meant life and peace. Disobedience meant death, as was clearly stated.

When Adam and Eve disobediently ate from the "tree of the knowledge of good and bad," they were in reality saying: "We can do better than God. We don't have to do it His way. We can do it our way." This, in fact, was what Satan told Eve, when he said: "For God knows that in the very day of your eating from it [the tree of the knowledge of good and bad] your eyes are bound to be opened and you are bound to be like God, knowing good and bad." (Genesis 3:5)

This was a lie. Adam and Eve took the bait of Satan, not the bait of Jehovah. They believed they could rule themselves effectively without obeying Jehovah. This is why we see death and suffering today: that initial act of disobedience to Jehovah. (Romans 5:12)

Thus the emphasis of the entire collection of Scriptures is obedience to Jehovah and his heavenly kingdom, with Jesus Christ as King. Abraham's withholding information from the Pharaoh was in harmony with obedience to God, for God had just told him: "Go your way out of your country... to the country that I shall show you. And I shall make a great nation out of you and I shall bless you and I will make your name great; and prove yourself a blessing... and all the families of the ground will certainly bless themselves by means of you." Genesis 12:1-3

Abraham did not tell a malicious lie. Rather, he was conerned with the fulfillment of God's promise that through him "all the families of the ground will certainly bless themselves." So Abraham refrained from saying that him and Sarah were married, and only said that Sarah was his sister (which she was; his half-sister) so that he would not be killed.

Obedience to Jehovah is why worshippers of Jehovah were told only to marry other worshippers of Jehvoah. To marry those who did not worship the Creator was to go down the path of Adam and Eve: a path leading to death. At Deuteronomy 7:3,4, Jehovah says: "And you must form no marriage alliance with them. Your daughter you must not give to his son, and his daughter you must not take for your son. For he will turn your son from following me, and they will certainly serve other gods; and Jehovah's anger will indeed blaze against you, and he will certainly annihilate you in a hurry."

So by marrying those who did not worship Jehovah, individuals were putting themselves in a position to follow the course of Adam and Eve. They would, in effect, be turning away from their Creator to follow falsehoods that were initiated by Satan in the garden of Eden.

Sodom and Gomorrah is another instance of receiving death because of disobedience.

Everything Jehovah does is loving. He wants humankind to have peace and happiness. All he requires is obedience. When we obey the laws of nature, there is peace. When we obey the laws of our Creator, Jehovah, we have peace. From Jehovah we have the prospect of living in a beatiful garden home, right here on the earth.

We are told: "For this is what Jehovah has said, the Creator of the heavens, He the true God, the Former of the earth and the Maker of it, He the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it even to be inhabited: "I am Jehovah, and there is no one else."--Isaiah 45:18

This was written thousands of years after Adam and Eve disobeyed. This promise, this reality of living on a peaceful paradise earth, still stands.

Where else can we find such love, justice, beauty, and hope than in the promises of Jehovah as they are recorded for us in the Scriptures?

Please keep seeking ruby. And keep on asking.

I am a student as well. We're always students.

heroesdoexist07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm still reading and keeping up, but I'm finished
> with the long posts for now.
>
> It seems more and more like Jehovah's Witnesses
> are like Christian Scientists in that they
> interpret the bible in slightly (or majorly, in
> the case of CS) different ways than mainstream
> Christians do. I have first-hand experience with
> Christian Science, as my mother was a member and
> forced me to be one as well, and the fact is that
> most of the PEOPLE are nice.

How do you see mainstream Christians interpretting the bible? I haven't really been around a lot of Christians, or at least open Christians, since my childhood, but back then it was conveyed to me by (the very nice people in) my church that God is perfect and loving, forgiving and compassionate. Is this what everybody is taught? And where does this idea come from? Reading the bible it seems that whoever created "us" (or at least the group of people who lived in the small area of the planet that is referred to in the bible), was actually using us as an experiment. He put Adam and Eve in a garden, at the center of which was 2 trees-- the tree of life (if eaten from you live forever), and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (inevitable death, realization of right and wrong). God warns them of the tree that will keep them mortal, but not of the other tree. Then He stands back to watch. Man takes the bait and we are punished... like hamsters in a maze. It's like we all die for Eve and Adam's sin. They were set up for failure from the beginning, like most of us are still. When the bible begins, God can stand in human form. As time goes on He is around less and begins to only appear as visions, dreams, or Angels represent Him. I think someone or something created us, and has since lost interest. Perhaps they're building other universes or have died off or gone back to their own planet. We're just kind of on auto-pilot now, killing our planet and ourselves off. One day, if we aren't extinct first, astronauts exploring deep space will hit the side of the aquarium we are in, just like in the Truman Show. How was there light before God created the sun, moon, and stars? It makes sense that the light was on in the lab where "Experiment Earth" was being constructed, until the sun was put into place. Maybe at one point, earth was the center of our universe. We know that is no longer true, but that could be because "God" created the rest of the universe after us. I'm on a huge tangent... sorry about that.

Back to the point...
What exactly is Christian Science? From the bit I found it seems like the healing reverends on TV- evangelical healers? As far as beliefs, Christian Scientists believe that God is intrinsically Good, right? I would assume most all christians would believe this as well. It seems Jehovah's Witness's believe this too, and base this idea, and everything they do, on the actual words in the bible. What am I missing??? Where is this good God in the bible? There was world peace, people of all one language building a city together, and He (or actually They) swooped down and created chaos (Genesis 11). He even smiles upon animal sacrifice, a practise that would be seen as satanic today. And the racism and sexism is BLATANT throughout.

> I'm not looking down on any of the people in
> either religion.

I absolutely believe the people are Good People at heart, and are doing what they believe is right, but if they are living by the actual words of the bible, and not symbolism or Blind Faith, I have a hard time understanding their motivation for worship.

> It's the interpretation that's skewed. Sometimes
> it seems like you can use the bible like a
> Rorschach test, where you get out of it what you
> want to.

I agree. I think my interpretation so far is very narrow, being that I have not studied religion and have no knowledge of common themes between christianity and paganism, and the other religions. My question is how smallcoins can say they live by the scripture without acknowledging the possibility of problems with translation or interpretation, when his ideas ARE interpretations to make the bible seem still relevent and ideal.

I'm still reading and keeping up, but I'm finished with the long posts for now.

It seems more and more like Jehovah's Witnesses are like Christian Scientists in that they interpret the bible in slightly (or majorly, in the case of CS) different ways than mainstream Christians do. I have first-hand experience with Christian Science, as my mother was a member and forced me to be one as well, and the fact is that most of the PEOPLE are nice.

I'm not looking down on any of the people in either religion.

It's the interpretation that's skewed. Sometimes it seems like you can use the bible like a Rorschach test, where you get out of it what you want to.

sorry I haven't been on. I worked 7 days the week of thanksgiving and 6 days last week... but i have been reading the bible in my spare time. I have only gotten through the first half of genesis because I've been summarizing each chapter as i go for a quick reference later, so perhaps my interpretation will be smoothed out later... but I see no reason at this point why it would unless when Jesus comes to save the day he says to ignore all the ridiculousness that people believed before him.

I gotta tell ya, I totally disagree with smallcoins interpretation. I do believe there is a lot of symbolism involved that I do not have background knowledge of. I think having the knowledge would make the story more correct. Anyway, here's a small part of why I think aaron has it wrong. I got to the part where Abraham asked his servant to find a wife for Isaac. The woman must be from NW Mesopotamia (where Abraham is from) and she must be one of his own relatives. He isn't demanding this because God commanded it. What could it be based on besides bigotry? You said "It was counsel from the Creator of life for the promotion of peace and truth." But where is that written in the scriptures? It sounds like your, or somebody from your church's, interpretation of what would be ideal, but not illustrated in the bible. In fact it seems Abraham and his family actually promote hatred and selfishness-- the biggest problems in the world today.

Also, later on Isaac marries Rebekah (his first cousin) and they have 2 sons, one of which marries 2 Hittite woman "who were a source of grief to Isaac and Rebekah", no mention of why other than they are Hittites. And then later- Genesis 27:46 Then Rebekah said to Isaac, "I'm disgusted with living because of these Hittite women. If Jacob takes a wife among the women of this land, from Hittite women like these, my life will not be worth living." How is that not intolerance?

Abraham lies to the pharoah, and then to King Abimelech, about his wife being his sister (which is only a half lie because she's his half sister), he says because he's afraid of being killed. He gets riches from this lie, and God punishes the kingdoms for something they had no fault in. How is this a fair and loving God? It seems as though He only has compassion and forgiveness for his prophets, no matter how wrong they are.

We are supposed to take our cues from Abraham because he was God's first prophet, but other than his divine connection I'm having a hard time finding anything he did as being righteous.

When it does mention that God listens to prayer, He helps by destroying entire cities. (Soddom and Gomorrah).

I have so much more to say but I don't if anyone is reading this anymore anyway. I hope so because I'd like to know if I'm missing something.

Well I think its safe 2 say this discussion has died

Ruby I'm sorry about that.................................. I misread your post.

ruby, we're always looking to discuss and answer questions. I'm glad you are asking. And I'm happy to respond.

>
> Do the scriptures say we must only marry within
> our religion, as in you can only marry a witness,
> or is this just a suggestion? What was heroes
> misinterpretting in this biblical reference? "1
> Cor 7:12-14 - To the rest I say: if any brother
> has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she is
> willing to go on living with him, he should not
> divorce her; and if any woman has a husband who is
> an unbeliever, and he is willing to go on living
> with her, she should not divorce her husband. For
> the unbelieving husband is made holy through his
> wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy
> through the brother. Otherwise your children would
> be unclean, whereas in fact they are holy."

After Jesus taught on the earth and had initiated Christianity, many became believers. Sometimes, a wife would become a believer while her husband wouldn't, and vice versa. The counsel cited at 1 Corinthians 7:12-14 applies to this situation. The hope, though, was always that the unbelieving spouse would also become a believer. This reality is shown to us at 1 Peter 3:1, 2 where it states: "In like manner, you wives, be in subjection to your own husbands, in order that, if any are not obedient to the word, they may be won without a word through the conduct of their wives, because of having been eyewitnesses of your chaste conduct together with deep respect."
(Please note that "subjection" is not oppressive servitude. We can look into that more if you'd like.)

heroesdoexist points out that 1 Corinthians 7:39 refers to remarriage, which is correct. But the principle is there for remarriage because that same principle is there for marriage. Paul's statement was a reminder of the proper marriage arrangement to those who were in a situation to remarry because of losing their spouse in death. When Jehovah spoke to the Israelites about the surrounding nations that did not serve him, he said: "And you must form no marriage alliance with them. Your daughter you must not give to his son, and his daughter you must not take for your son. For he will turn your son from following me, and they will certainly serve other gods; and Jehovah's anger will indeed blaze against you." (Deuteronomy 7:3, 4) The apostle Paul, under inspiration, emphasized this point when he stated: "Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness?" (2 Corinthians 6:14)

>
> Also, is it true that sex, even in marriage, is
> only supposed to be for conception? Ignoring
> physical needs in a committed, loving relationship
> seems more than out-dated, but extreme and
> dangerous. I see it as being the reason so many
> priests get into trouble with the young boys who
> are so unlucky to be so available to them.

While the primary purpose for sex was to produce children, it was also an intimate expression of love between husband and wife. At Proverbs 6:18, 19 a husband is encouraged to "rejoice with the wife of your youth... Let her own breasts intoxicate you at all times. With her love may you be in an ecstasy constantly." Furthermore, at 1 Corinthians 7:2, 3, 5 the apostle Paul counsels: "Because of prevalence of fornication, let each man have his own wife and each woman have her own husband. Let the husband render to his wife her due; but let the wife also do likewise to her husband... Do not be depriving each other of it, except by mutual consent for an appointed time, that you may devote time to prayer and may come together again, that Satan may not keep tempting you for your lack of self-regulation." This is truly in harmony with your observation that cutting off sexual expression in the marriage arrangement is damaging. In fact, as regards the celibacy of priests goes, that often-debated tradition isn't even scriptural. It is also a lie. Notice what it says at 1 Corinthians 9:5: "We have authority to lead about a sister as a wife, even as the rest of the apostles and the Lord's brothers and Cephas, do we not?"

As for the population problem, the Scriptures do agree with your observation. Adam and Eve were commanded to fill the earth, not overfill it. "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it," so commanded Jehovah. --Genesis 1:28

>
> I just want a clarification on this point. So,
> when humans die we are done. Lives finished and
> into the grave forever. No longer existing is hell
> according to the scriptures? And those who
> followed the bible will be resurrected to live
> forever on earth as paradise as it once was?
> Because that's kind of a variation of what I'd
> like to believe.

Hell is the common grave. Once death is no more, hell will be no more. So, hell is currently in existence, as death still exists. But hell is not a fiery place of torment for the wicked. "For he who has died has been acquitted from his sin." (Romans 6:7) How can you be punished forever if you have been acquitted at death? To be certain, when one dies "his spirit goes out, He goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish." (Psalm 146:4)

And yes, what a future there is to look forward to on this earth: "The meek ones themselves will possess the earth, and they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace... The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it." (Psalm 37:11, 29) Humans and animals will also be at peace with one another: "And the wolf will actually reside for a while with the male lamb, and with the kid the leopard itself will lie down, and the calf and the maned young lion and the well-fed animal all together; and a mere little boy will be leader over them. And the cow and the bear themselves will feed; together their young ones will lie down. And even the lion will eat straw just like the bull. And the sucking child will certainly play upon the hole of the cobra; and upon the light aperture of a poisounous snake will a weaned child actually put his own hand. They will not do any harm or cause any ruin in all my holy mountain; because the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah as the waters are covering the very sea." --Isaiah 11:6-9

So yes, ruby, the damaging corrupt system of non-sustainability will be destroyed. The idea of a self-sustained community is truly appealing. That's the only option for this earth. Yet the world we live in doesn't care. The system is corrupt. We need a complete community living in harmony with the earth. Jehovah's heavenly kingdom will make that a reality by destroying this failing system, and the remaining human family will have the privilege of restoring this earth to a complete, self-sustained paradise.

"And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away."--Revelation 21:4

> >
> I often wonder how the bible explains the
> universe... other planets besides earth. I don't
> think the reality of the solar system and the
> existence of other planets had been discovered
> yet? Is this explained at all besides referring to
> "the heavens"?

The Bible doesn't mention other planets, as God's original purpose was for humankind to make the earth a global garden. That original purpose has yet to be fulfulled, and it will be. We will know what do then when that time comes.

The Bible does mention specific constellations of stars in Job chapter 38. And before having access to any view from outer space, Bible writers were inspired to write that the earth was 'hung upon nothing' and was in the shape of a circle, or sphere, rather than a square, flat piece of land. --Job 26:7; Isaiah 40:22

Amazing. Further evidence of guidance from a Creator.

Please keep asking if you have more questions. There ARE answers. And what is your community like? How long have you been a vegan?

Ruby, Its a law because if its broken you would be disobeying Jehovah............. Another thing 1 Corth. 7:39 also says even in remarriage we are to only marry in the Lord, which means we are only to marry Jehovah's people, Which would be the Jehovah's Witnesses. Does this make sense to you?

Ushersgirl_06 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ruby I am glad you're finally seeing what Aaron's
> been telling you is the truth! k im going to
> quote Aaron here so maybe this can help answer
> your question "Jehovah's Witnesses apply the
> counsel found at 1 Cornthians 7:39: to marry "only
> in the Lord." Since Jehovah's Witnesses date with
> the intent of marriage, naturally we also would
> date "only in the Lord." (Those sharing our
> faith.)"

I said the bible was worth reading. I don't know that I feel what Aaron is saying is the truth, but I do believe you both think it is. I was asking for a clarification whether this idea is a suggestion for harmony, or a law of which one would be disobeying the lord if it were broken. That's why I only quoted the part of it I was referring to.

heroesdoexist07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In response to that, I will quote myself again.
> The FULL verse of I Corinthians 7:39 (you are only
> quoting part of it) is as follows.
>
> 1 Cor 7:39 - A wife is bound to her husband as
> long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is
> free to be married to whomever she wishes,
> provided that it be in the Lord.
>
> First of all, this quote doesn't deal with
> marriage - only remarriage after the death of the
> husband. We know that biblical scripture
> disapproves of divorce and views a woman's second
> marriage as a different thing entirely. Secondly,
> this provision DOES NOT APPLY TO HER HUSBAND. If
> you look closely, the verse says that 'it' - the
> marriage - must be in the Lord, rather than the
> PERSON married. So you see, Paul is asking that
> the marriage be a proper Christian ceremony, and
> kept in the Christian way. He doesn't comment on
> what religion the new husband must belong to.

First of all I just read this verse myself, it states that when marrying in the Lord (remarriage or not) you must marry in the Lord which means you must marry one of Jehovah's people............

You know what? I will go read this chapter right now, I will be back on later with a new response.......

In response to that, I will quote myself again. The FULL verse of I Corinthians 7:39 (you are only quoting part of it) is as follows.

1 Cor 7:39 - A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to be married to whomever she wishes, provided that it be in the Lord.

First of all, this quote doesn't deal with marriage - only remarriage after the death of the husband. We know that biblical scripture disapproves of divorce and views a woman's second marriage as a different thing entirely. Secondly, this provision DOES NOT APPLY TO HER HUSBAND. If you look closely, the verse says that 'it' - the marriage - must be in the Lord, rather than the PERSON married. So you see, Paul is asking that the marriage be a proper Christian ceremony, and kept in the Christian way. He doesn't comment on what religion the new husband must belong to.

Ruby I am glad you're finally seeing what Aaron's been telling you is the truth! k im going to quote Aaron here so maybe this can help answer your question "Jehovah's Witnesses apply the counsel found at 1 Cornthians 7:39: to marry "only in the Lord." Since Jehovah's Witnesses date with the intent of marriage, naturally we also would date "only in the Lord." (Those sharing our faith.)"

I have been looking for somebody to be able to answer my questions about christianity for a long time. You've shown that your religion is worth learning more about. I have been meaning to read the bible for a long time, just as an ancient piece of literature, so I suppose now is as good a time as any. I hope you are willing to continue answering questions in the meantime. Being vegan I understand the frusteration of feeling so strongly about something that others are completely ignorant to. It gets tiresome answering the same simple questions over and over... so bear with me, if you don't mind.

Do the scriptures say we must only marry within our religion, as in you can only marry a witness, or is this just a suggestion? What was heroes misinterpretting in this biblical reference? "1 Cor 7:12-14 - To the rest I say: if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she is willing to go on living with him, he should not divorce her; and if any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he is willing to go on living with her, she should not divorce her husband. For the unbelieving husband is made holy through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy through the brother. Otherwise your children would be unclean, whereas in fact they are holy."

Also, is it true that sex, even in marriage, is only supposed to be for conception? Ignoring physical needs in a committed, loving relationship seems more than out-dated, but extreme and dangerous. I see it as being the reason so many priests get into trouble with the young boys who are so unlucky to be so available to them. Besides the fact that breeding is irresponsible in todays world, with so many starving orphans and the human population being out of control. Everybody can't and nobody should ignore sexual desire for their entire lives. This is one reason I think the scriptures are outdated.

I just want a clarification on this point. So, when humans die we are done. Lives finished and into the grave forever. No longer existing is hell according to the scriptures? And those who followed the bible will be resurrected to live forever on earth as paradise as it once was? Because that's kind of a variation of what I'd like to believe.

Do you know that 99% of our meat, eggs and dairy come from factory farms that abuse animals for their entire lives and have complete disregard for the destruction they cause to the earth. Do you not see the hypocracy in helping these industries, by handing them money in return for their "food". I'm assuming you are not vegan and/or do not live in a self-sustaining community. I understand that most people do not know where there food comes from, but hearing it now and ignoring it would be a mistake according to the bible. This is the second reason I'm not sure if the scriptures apply today.

I often wonder how the bible explains the universe... other planets besides earth. I don't think the reality of the solar system and the existence of other planets had been discovered yet? Is this explained at all besides referring to "the heavens"?

I'm sure I have more questions, but I'll stop there and I will check out watchtower.org.

ruby,

Please be encouraged by the fact that the idea of hellfire is not a scriptural teaching. It is a lie. According to the Bible, the dead are "conscious of nothing at all." (Ecclesiastes 9:5) Hell is the common grave of mankind; a figurative grave where those who have died exist in rest. Hell is something that will be destroyed, as death will be destroyed. (Revelation 20:14)

Those who rest unconsciously in hell have the prospect of being resurrected on the earth, as it is written: "I have this hope toward God... that there is going to be a resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous." (Acts 24:15) This is very good news! The earth where this resurrection will take place is the same earth we live on now, only then the destructive influences that are ruining this earth will have been removed, laying the groundwork for earth's restoration to paradise, just as God purposes.

The "meek" who will eventually inherit the earth are just as you have described them: obedient, submissive. But these meek ones are those who have proven themselves to be obedient to the Creator, not to the folly of destructive mankind. There is a principle: "We must obey God as ruler rather than men." (Acts 5:28) Jehovah's people meekly follow all human laws unless they conflict with the Creator's laws. We cannot disobey the Creator in order to please man. Our hope and confidence is in the cause of Jehovah.

The Scriptures identify a heavenly government that will see to it that those who are destroying our home will be destroyed forever. As it is stated at Revelation 11:18, Jehovah will "bring to ruin those ruining the earth." This heavenly government is what Jesus prayed for in the Lord's prayer, when he said "Let your kingdom come." (Matthew 6:10

Indeed, there is great hope for the future that enables us to live a life of love, peace, and harmony now. The earth will be healed. Humankind will be healed. We as human beings have failed in attempts to rule ourselves. This world that is not God's world, but Satan's world, is based on that very lie that human beings can govern this earth. This world, this system, will be destroyed. Satan, and those who insist on disboeying Jehovah, the Creator of the heavens and earth, will be destroyed along with it. --Revelation 16:14; 20:10

I am encouraged by your passion,r uby. Please use this passion to understand the true promise that exists in the Bible. Jehovah's promises are all that we have.

www.watchtower.org

Wow............I'm gone for 2 days and I come back to this?????? All I have to say is wow..............

smallcoins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> After all, if we
> believe there is an almighty Creator who initiated
> and sustains life, surely he would have the
> ability and concern to make sure his message to
> humankind remained uncorrupted through
> translation.

That's just a silly argument. If we believe there is an almighty creator who initiates and sustains life, surely he would have been able to stop hell from being created, would not have put the materials on earth for people to become addicted to heroine, would not create birth defects, hatred, poison, cancer, poverty, or George Bush. We are people, and therefore imperfect. We make mistakes in translation all the time. People use biblical translation to call homosexuality wrong (a misinterpretation), yet you cannot deny that gays are born that way... created by God. You speak of polluted waters, false religion... aka misinterpretation of the bible.

> I eagerly invite you to see for yourself the
> reality and promise that is shown to us in the
> Bible. And if we aren't going to turn to
> direction from a book that has a historical
> identification of being divinely inspired, where
> then do you think we should turn? and why?

Paganism existed before christianity. Christian leaders chose Holidays on days of Pagan holidays in order to help the switchover to christianity. Paganism worships many Gods representing the earth. It is believed that in its original text the bible actually refers to "Gods" not God.

Being that you've studied the entire bible and understand it in its completeness, perhaps you could explain this to me as I find it puzzling.
Meek: showing little spirit or courage. Tamely obey. Overly submissive, compliant.
I find it interesting that the bible considers meekness a desirable trait, one worthy of inheriting paradise.
The meek would be those who believe what they are told-- those who obey without questioning, and who find no need to study other, older, religions. A meek person would not question widely used practices of industrialized farming that pollute and ruin the earth. Christians do not worship the earth. The separation of our spirits from those of all other life on earth has caused such destruction. The meek will inherit this earth that their negligence has destroyed? Seems very fitting, but I must be missing something. That couldn't be what was meant by that line.

In answer to your question, no I have not studied the scriptures in their entirety (as I mentioned earlier I know very little about it compared to you.) I was raised methodist, as far as going to sunday school and church every week... but once I was old enough to realize they could be feeding me anything and I would believe it because I was young and trusted adults, I began to question the religion. I appreciate it as an ancient book, and that is all. I live by what I believe is right based on what is happening in the world today. I do not support industries that treat animals and the earth like disposable items. I try to be knowledgeable about the world and act according to what I believe is the right thing to do. I don't hurt people to help myself, I give when I have, and teach what I know and I learn when I don't. I believe that if there is a God or Gods who created human beings, and elephants, and fleas that He/They would not need to be worshipped or known during our time on earth. I believe we are here to learn and grow and eventually after many lives become good and pure enough to become a part of "God" and not have to return to the material world. If you are right and there is a God who expects me to blindly follow something that the brain and soul he gave me cannot have true faith in, then I think I would prefer hell.

heroesdoexist,

Thank you for your informational response.

What I was trying to illustrate about the trees was that they all follow the same laws of nature. Yes, they have no choice. It's the way they work. But how did those natural laws come to be? They were instituted by a Creator. So, too, there are spiritual laws and principles given by the Creator. When we follow these, we flourish like a well- watered tree.

You have a logical mind. That's very encouraging. I hope that you will see your comments in the light of ALL scripture, to come to a more informed conclusion.

The principles of Abraham and Paul set precedents that the Israelites and Christians were to follow. Your view of what Paul meant by marriage is an interesting one. But it does not harmonize with the principle followed by Abraham. Therefore, it cannot be a part of Scriptural truth, as it is written: "All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness." 2 Timothy 3:16

We are indeed imperfect; Or, rusty buckets, so to speak. However this does not prevent us from understanding and following scriptural truth. It is written: "For this is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments; and yet his commandments are not burdensome." 1 John 5:3.

Yes, God's clear commandments are not too hard for us. We can follow them. We may make mistakes, but we always have the potential to correct our course, because the truth never changes, and it is always discernible. --Proverbs 2:3-5

There is one set of natural laws that keeps the universe in order. Logically, then, there is only one set of spiritual laws that can keep humankind in order. This is the way of Jehovah. Jehovah's Witnesses do not look down on others, taking the attitude of 'we're right and you're wrong.' Yet, we seek to give a witness to the ways of Jehovah, to share this good teaching with others, because we believe it is the way to real life.

It is also written: "I shall certainly magnify myself and sanctify myself and make myself known before the eyes of many nations; and they will have to know that I am Jehovah." --Ezekiel 38:23

The end of this corrupt system of things is drawing near. Jehovah will make himself known as the one and true Lawgiver, by destroying all those who willfully disobey him. Please, see for yourself the true benefit of following the ways of Jehovah as they are laid out in ALL scripture.

All right, time to bust out the 'reply with quote'.

smallcoins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> heroesdoexist,
>
> Jehovah's Witnesses are interested in pleasing the
> Creator, Jehovah, the origin of truth and love.
> We understand the Bible to be written instruction
> from Jehovah to humankind. His instruction is for
> us to be obedient to. Just as the trees are
> obedient to the physical laws of nature, we seek
> to be obedient to the spiritual laws and
> principles of Jehovah. We don't follow the
> teaching of any one human or philosophical idea.
> Rather, we follow the teaching of Jehovah, as it
> is written in the Bible.

It's fine that you obey Jehovah, or God. You could be obeying Barbara Steisand, and it still wouldn't make me approve of selective marriage any more than I do now.

> The command to marry "only in the Lord" is a
> scriptural command, not a human one.

While it may be a scriptural command, it is one issued by Paul, and not Jesus. Paul is one of the most important Christian prophets, so that is a valid point.

> (1 Corinthians 7:39)

I found some VERY interesting things when I read the entirety of 1 Cor 7. Now, in verses 1 through 11, Paul sets out the usual guidelines towards marriage; a man should not touch a woman, but if the temptation is unavoidable than marry her; a woman's body belongs not to her but her husband, etc. Then verse 12 becomes interesting.

1 Cor 7:12-14 - To the rest I say: if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she is willing to go on living with him, he should not divorce her; and if any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he is willing to go on living with her, she should not divorce her husband. For the unbelieving husband is made holy through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy through the brother. Otherwise your children would be unclean, whereas in fact they are holy.

So far, there is no edict saying to only marry other Jehovah's witnesses, or in fact even Christians! The passage goes on to say that circumcision doesn't matter, makes a few noncommital comments towards slavery, tells married persons that they should not have sex with their wives anyway, and finally, in verse 38:

1 Cor 7:38 - So then, the one who marries his virgin does well; the one who does not marry her will do better.

This essentially says that it is okay to marry someone if temptation forces you to lose your virginity, but that it is much better to remain unmarried and a virgin for life. This is the verse before the one you quoted. The verse you quoted reads:

1 Cor 7:39 - A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to be married to whomever she wishes, provided that it be in the Lord.

So, I have a few points of contention with your quote! First of all, it doesn't deal with marriage - only remarriage, as we know that biblical scripture disproves of divorce and views the second marriage as a different thing entirely. Secondly, this provision DOES NOT APPLY TO HER HUSBAND. If you look closely, the MARRIAGE must be in the Lord - not her husband! So you see, Paul is merely asking that the marriage be a proper Christian ceremony, and kept in the Christian way. What he said about husbands not of the faith before does not apply.

(Also, let me say here that there were no Protestants or Catholics as such when this was written; Christianity was pretty much all one sect. For one Christian to not marry another Christian because they thought scripture forbid it would have been unheard of and, frankly, hilarious)

> This command not only
> harmonizes with the practice of the first century
> Christians, but also the ancient Israelites, who
> were told not to marry from the daughters of the
> Canaanites. (Genesis 24:3, 4) Why? Was it
> racism? Was it hate? No. It was counsel from
> the Creator of life for the promotion of peace and
> truth.

As I said before, the issue the first-century Christians had was not marrying between sects; it was a Christian marrying a pagan or Jew. That isn't what we're arguing over here; you're saying that a Jehovah's Witness, a Christian, cannot marry another Christian of a slightly different sect. Next, I will post the verses you quoted as you have neglected to do so.

Genesis 24:2-4 - Abraham said to the senior servant of his household, who had charge of all his possessions: "Put your hand under my thigh, and I will make you swear by the LORD, the God of heaven and the God of earth, that you will not procure a wife for my son from the daughters of the Canaanites among whom I live, but that you will go to my own land and to my kindred to get a wife for my son Isaac."

Not knowing my main man Abraham very well, I can't say that it WASN'T racism or hate that compelled him to say this, but, like you, I doubt that it was. In fact, my short Google-insprired research shows that Canaan at the time was the most hideously immoral and corrupt country in the entire biblical world. Abraham's command was just his attempt to guide his son in marriage. (http://www.theology.edu/canaan.htm)

Unlike what you said, this wasn't a 'practice of the ancient Israelites'. This is Abraham talking to his son - just those two people practicing this, as far as I can see.

> There is a diversity of trees in the natural
> world, but they are all obedient to the same
> physical laws. None of them divert. Likewise,
> the counsel from Jehovah for marriage to be
> between those who both follow the ways of Jehovah
> is for our benefit. It is counsel for people of
> all nations and cultures. It is peace. It is not
> tyranny. It is not racism. It is loving
> diversity in the discipline of truth.

Trees obey physical laws, such as gravity and the nature of organic chemistry, because they have no choice but to do so. A tree cannot hover or spontaneously combust if it wants to. In contrast, humans are perfectly capable of marrying outside of their religion and do so all of the time. Your arguement is facetious because it compares two different kinds of laws.

You may say that the proof is in the pudding, that intrareligious marriage must work because the divorce rate of Jehovah's Witnesses is lower than that for the general populace. Well, the divorce rate is lower, but to that fact we must add that we don't necessarily know the reason why. Reluctance to buck scripture and ask for divorce is as likely as any divine nod of legitimacy. The divorce rate for Atheists, in fact, is just as low as that for Jehovah's witnesses - and they don't have any native sympathy against divorce.

If the Pope or the President of the United States proclaimed that Christians should not marry Jews or Muslims, there would be a worldwide protest. If anyone with authority told us that whites could no longer marry asians, arabs, or blacks, the nation would unite in detest of their message. Why do you persist in thinking that your policy should be treated any differently, regardless of how you justify it? Divisive policies that control which people can associate with whom are NEVER peaceful, or loving, or diverse, or truthfull.

> And surely we see a lot of division today. We see
> division in marriages, as they turn to divorces;
> and we see division in the world, as it turns to
> war.
>
> How can different faiths be of the same God when
> different faiths kill one another? Does God
> approve? We can find out by looking to his
> counsel. We find his counsel in the Scriptures.

Easily. You and I would agree that, no matter how we as humans try, we can never perfectly follow the truth. The truth, in fact, is like pure water...and we, as holed and rusty buckets, try to hold as much as we can. No matter how much we hold, it is always tainted by our own humanity.

I propose that we CANNOT judge a religion by the acts of its adherence; only by its policy. If the Ku Klux Klan attacked a black man in the name of Christ, we would not say that Christianity was a violent religion because of it. Rather, the KKK would be misinterpreting the policy of the Christian Church. So, although there is a lot of violence worldwide in the NAME of religion, if everybody obeyed religion doctrine to the letter than there would be much less violence.

In this way, different faiths can be of the same God. All protestants, all Catholics, Greek, and Russion Orthodox, and all Jews and Muslims ALL follow the same God, by the same name. The religions are all similar, at least by 95%. There are minor differences in the interpretations of the Bible, Torah, and Koran among them, but the basic doctrine is similar. How can you say that the God of a Baptist, who reads out of the same friggin' book that you do, is any different than yours?

> Jehovah's Witnesses are glad to show others that
> Jehovah God does not approve of war, but approves
> of peace and truth. Just as the trees stay rooted
> strongly in the laws of nature, so Jehovah's
> Witnesses seek to stay rooted in the instruction
> from our Creator, Jehovah: for peace and love
> now, that is to be carried into the fulfillment of
> the promised earthly paradise, where the diverse
> human family will flourish in its obedience to
> Jehovah. --Psalm 1:1-3; Isaiah 11:9;

How can you think that God truly wants you to only marry among your tiny sect, when there are BILLIONS of similar Christians in the world who do not think the same way? The final irony, in my opinion, is this:

By saying that Jehovah's Witnesses can only marry other Jehovah's Witnesses, you instantly declare to the billions of Christians in the world that everyone is wrong except you.

heroesdoexist,

Jehovah's Witnesses are interested in pleasing the Creator, Jehovah, the origin of truth and love. We understand the Bible to be written instruction from Jehovah to humankind. His instruction is for us to be obedient to. Just as the trees are obedient to the physical laws of nature, we seek to be obedient to the spiritual laws and principles of Jehovah. We don't follow the teaching of any one human or philosophical idea. Rather, we follow the teaching of Jehovah, as it is written in the Bible.

The command to marry "only in the Lord" is a scriptural command, not a human one. (1 Corinthians 7:39) This command not only harmonizes with the practice of the first century Christians, but also the ancient Israelites, who were told not to marry from the daughters of the Canaanites. (Genesis 24:3, 4) Why? Was it racism? Was it hate? No. It was counsel from the Creator of life for the promotion of peace and truth.

There is a diversity of trees in the natural world, but they are all obedient to the same physical laws. None of them divert. Likewise, the counsel from Jehovah for marriage to be between those who both follow the ways of Jehovah is for our benefit. It is counsel for people of all nations and cultures. It is peace. It is not tyranny. It is not racism. It is loving diversity in the discipline of truth.

And surely we see a lot of division today. We see division in marriages, as they turn to divorces; and we see division in the world, as it turns to war.

How can different faiths be of the same God when different faiths kill one another? Does God approve? We can find out by looking to his counsel. We find his counsel in the Scriptures.

Jehovah's Witnesses are glad to show others that Jehovah God does not approve of war, but approves of peace and truth. Just as the trees stay rooted strongly in the laws of nature, so Jehovah's Witnesses seek to stay rooted in the instruction from our Creator, Jehovah: for peace and love now, that is to be carried into the fulfillment of the promised earthly paradise, where the diverse human family will flourish in its obedience to Jehovah. --Psalm 1:1-3; Isaiah 11:9;

You can find more information about these topics in the following articles: :

"Is Bible Morality the Best?" http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/2000/11/1/article_02.htm

"The End of False Religion is Near!"
http://www.watchtower.org/e/kn37/article_01.htm

You know I'm going to tell you the same exact thing I told my ex, I'd rather not have this conversation anymore If you want to continue to talk to me that would be great but I'd rather not talk about religion anymore because I remember you saying you dont believe in God?

And yes I've noticed you like playing that game and its somewhat cute and amusing however I am one of those people who get instantly mad so be careful lol

Alisa

I play devil's advocate a lot, heh. But not against my opinions.

I hate, hate, HATE that policy, if that's what Jehovah's Witnesses truly believe. Not allowing you to date outside your religion is tantamount to sanctioned racism in my eyes.

Let me revise what I said before. I don't look down on the individual Jehovah's Witnesses. But if it is the policy of the church to tell you who you can and cannot marry, then I look down upon the church as a worm on the underside of my shoe.

What is this? Are you purposely trying to argue with me? And you know what? I know now I cannot do that, she said she made a mistake and told me about it. its kinda cute how you get a kick outta arguing with me (no im not flirting with you!!!!!!) I do find it amusing and entertaining to read your posts. Anything else U wanna quote me on?????? I also admit I dated once out of my religion, but it was with the intention (dumb on my part) of staying with him 4 the rest of my life.....

B-b-b-b-but you said...

"My aunt has been a Witness for 30 some years and she says its okay to date those. I even had a boyfriend that is totally not a Witness but I was still allowed to date him just not u know with him. So I dont know about that........"

So some of you DO think that it's OK to date outside of your religion.

Okay well actually you do look down on us herosdoexist07 wrote:"I don't look down on Jehovah's Witnesses, just those who thrive on the 'seperate but equal' philosophy of selective marriage."
Well guess what? we all believe that!!!!! We all date only our own religion with the intention of marriage, so I guess you look down on all of us which is really sad.............

Ushersgirl_06 Wrote:
I
> understand you don't believe what we do but
> seriously you shouldnt look down on us

What????????? How is my intepretation of your "post" crazed and twisted????? I NEVER said you looked down on Jehovah's Witnesses.............. I dont know where you got that from. (now go ahead and quote something I said so I can fix it... )

Ushersgirl, I'm going to concentrate mainly on answering smallcoins here. Your interpretation of my post is crazed and twisted - I don't look down on Jehovah's Witnesses, just those who thrive on the 'seperate but equal' philosophy of selective marriage.

Smallcoins, I'm not ashamed to say that I love your post on polluted water. It calls to mind a fantastic book I read called 'The Language of God' (the author's name escapes me). It spoke, in part, about how humans are like rusty buckets. The truth, whether in God's name or otherwise, lies out there like pure water. We try to catch and hold the water, but no matter how pure the water is, it will always be polluted if we retain it by our rust. We're all rusty buckets.

I can't and don't blame religion for the transgressions committed by its adherents. I love Christianity, really; the ideals of the 10 Commandments (most of 'em, anyway) and the Golden Rule and the principle of Love speak to me strongly. I'll talk about my personal religion at a later time, since I think it would strongly cloud this discussion if I busted it out.

Can all religions 'be in the Lord' when following different beliefs? They all worship a God of the same name, who has the same principles - Jehovah's Witnesses believe in a God of Love, as does every other friggin' Christian on the planet! The only difference lies in interpretation., and the difference in interpretation is relatively minute. You're all operating off of the same scripture, for the most part. So yes, all judeo-christian mainstream religions ARE of the Lord, with minor differences. I doubt the differences are enough for God really to care, especially when he realizes that all of the true worshippers, from all of these seperate religions, still dedicate themselves to him and believe essentially the same way.

(Sorry if I got a little lost along the way, it's damn early in the morning)

ruby,

By your stating that the Bible is an ancient book that dictates, and by implying that the Bible is overly restrictive in the matter of marriage or the celebration of holidays, is how I understood you to think that the Bible is disagreeable, contradictory, or damaging. I'm sorry if I misunderstood. I never look to argue.

I do not read Hebrew. But more than a few of Jehovah's Witnesses do. Yet, is language translation really the barrier? After all, if we believe there is an almighty Creator who initiated and sustains life, surely he would have the ability and concern to make sure his message to humankind remained uncorrupted through translation.

Your concern about interpretation is very appropriate. We see many conflicting ideas about the Bible don't we? However, there is a unique trait about the Bible: it is complete. There is no room for misinterpretation when considering everything that is written in the Scriptures. It is only when one ignores parts of the Bible and runs with others that it is obscured. We do not have the right to interpret, for as the Scriptures clearly state, "interpretations belong to God." (Genesis 40: Yet we do have the ability to either understand, or ignore.

You might imagine a painting in an art museum. Different ones will look at that painting and have different interpretations about what the artist was trying to say. There are different interpretations because we don't have all of the information about the artist, their purpose, their feelings at the time of creating the work. Interpretation is our only option.

But the Creator provided no lack of information about his purpose, his personality, his ways, his feelings. The Scriptures are a complete and informed painting. There is no room for interpretation. We either understand, or ignore.

Ignoring the Scriptures in their entirety is what has produced the many variations of belief today.

What about you? Have you looked at the Scriptures in their entirety to come to an accurate conclusion about them? Or are you perhaps relying on incomplete information about the Bible, where your only option would be to rely on an interpretation of your own?

I eagerly invite you to see for yourself the reality and promise that is shown to us in the Bible. And if we aren't going to turn to direction from a book that has a historical identification of being divinely inspired, where then do you think we should turn? and why?

smallcoins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is it in the Bible that you find
> disagreeable, or contradictory, or damaging? As a
> student of the Bible, I haven't found any of these
> characteristics in scriptural teachings. But if
> they are there, I surely want to know.

I'm reading my post over and over and I don't see where I said that... I kind of feel like my words have been distorted in order to be easier to argue with.

I guess the question is Do you read Hebrew, smallcoins? If not, how can you be certain that you are not practicing a false religion? I am not trying to argue against your faith. I am not even saying that your religion is wrong. How could I possibly know that when I know very little about it?

My biggest problem is that the scriptures are left up to interpretation. I believe there is a lot of metaphorical interpretation. Meaning has been lost from language barriers, words change meaning over thousands of years. A simplified example for comparison is like reading a horoscope. Anybody can read a horoscope in a magazine and find a way to apply it to themselves.

I completely agree the problem is not in the book itself. How can you be sure that your religion has the "correct" interpretation, or even that it is a work of non-fiction? But, if it makes you happy, it gives you a good direction to live a good life, you aren't hurting anybody, good for you. Everybody deserves to be happy.

My concern is only with these young people who are following along blindly doing everything older people in their religion are telling them to do. I just hope they aren't losing their ability to use common sense. (ex-->birth control, a sense of being a part of nature instead of in charge of nature, etc)

Aaron,
I am glad that you are open to discuss these things on a message board. I have a copy of this Tract and think its wonderful that its being sent out. I hope to help others discover the truth of Jehovah's teachings. I have a little one at home (not my child, my sister) whom is nine and is being taught Jehovah's way. Talking with you on here gives me wonderful hope and makes me very happy to know I'm not alone or foolish!

Alisa

Questioning, common sense, knoweldge, judgment: all of these are essential for understanding the world around us. It is good that you bring attention to these things, ruby.

Sadly, in all of humankind's time and effort in the pursuit of knowledge, the world, collectively, still walks with wobbly knees.

Where does the fault lie? Is it with human government? Is it with all religion? Is it with the Bible?

What is it in the Bible that you find disagreeable, or contradictory, or damaging? As a student of the Bible, I haven't found any of these characteristics in scriptural teachings. But if they are there, I surely want to know.

You are right about the many bad things resulting from various religions. No doubt many have lost interest or have lost faith in the Bible because of the divided results we often see among those who claim to be adhering to biblical principles.

Have you asked yourself, though, if they are really following what's taught in the Bible? Is it possible that the Bible is not at fault at all, but that the fault lies with those who have distorted the scriptures for selfish gain?

You might imagine the polluted waters that exist on the earth. Those polluted waters could be damaging to drink. But is the water to blame for being polluted, or is human influence to blame? Clearly, it is human influence that has polluted earth's waters.

So too, with the Scriptures. There are many polluted teachings. But water can be filtered, and scriptural truth can be found.

Jehovah's Witnesses believe the Bible is an inspired product of the earth's Creator, Jehovah, and is therefore available and relevant now just as it was many years ago. The Bible being put into many different languages is what we'd expect from a caring Creator who wants to make his purpose known to all people, is it not?

You may find this quoted excerpt interesting:

"Are you distressed about crimes committed in the name of religion? Do the warfare, terrorism, and corruption perpetrated by those who claim to serve God offend your sense of justice? Why does religion seem to be at the root of so many problems?

The fault lies, not with all religion, but with false religion. A widely respected religious figure, Jesus Christ, indicated that false religion produces bad works, just as a “rotten tree produces worthless fruit.” (Matthew 7:15-17) What fruit does false religion yield?"

This is from a tract entitled: "The End of False Religion is Near!" that is right now being distributed worldwide by Jehovah's Witnesses. To be certain, the polluted waters of false religion are soon to be dried up. Be encouraged, please, to understand more of what the Bible really does teach, and what hope the human family and its earthly home truly do have.

Quoted excerpt and full article found at:
http://www.watchtower.org/e/kn37/article_01.htm

Ruby I'm not going to attack you, bascially like I was saying before, as Jehovah's Witnesses we base our lives on the Bible, however, personally there are many things I decide on my own, the Bible doesnt control my life, I just prefer to live my life based on how Jehovah wants it to be done, I love Jehovah and I will live by his commands and wishes. Those wishes and commands are whats written in the Bible, therefore why I live by the Bible. Does this make any sense to you? I know you have your beliefs and they arent the same as mine, BUT thats okay, doesnt mean we should fight about it or not speak to eachother because of it. Do you see what I'm saying?

Alisa AKA Ushersgirl_06

I'm probably going to be attacked for this, but I'm with heroesdoexist as far as letting an ancient book dictate your preferences, if there is no other reason besides "the book said so". I understand that religion is important for some people to give them peace of mind and a reason to feel good about themselves and the way they choose to live life.

Isn't it important to question authority and to use common sense, knowledge, and judgement. Otherwise we're all just a bunch of sheep. Afterall, the scriptures were not written in English. That's why there are so many different interpretations of it.

Like somebody said earlier, religion has been used to justify many many horrible things in the past. We can't lose our ability to be rational because the scriptures (according to somebody's interpretation) said we can't be in love with somebody we love, or celebrate a holiday just for the fun of it.

heroesdoexist07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ursher's chick, pocketchange, I think y'all have
> it wrong. You're supposed to date and marry only
> in the Lord....how does that prevent you from
> marrying other believers? Jews, Muslims, and
> Christians are ALL of the same God. In the Koran,
> it even states that Jews and Christians are to be
> treated mercifully since they are both 'of the
> Book'. Aside from the straight-up WRONGNESS that
> comes from a religion dictating who you can be
> with, I'm just saying that if someone believes in
> God, then they are 'of the Lord' just as much as a
> Jehovah's Witness.
>
> Like I said, though, there is something very, very
> wrong if you're letting an organized religion
> dictate who you can date - I'd say it's almost
> criminal. While you're at it, no dating white guys
> if you're black, and Japanese girls should stick
> with Japanese men!

No I think you've got it wrong. I'm not going into this right now because I'm quite angry, I understand you don't believe what we do but seriously you shouldnt look down on us because you dont believe in what we do. We read the Scriptures in the Bible and live by them because it's what Jehovah wants us to do. We are by no means racist against anyones religion or race. We just follow what Jehovah tells us to do. Thats the best way I can explain it without being mean about it, Aaron (small coins) can explain it better than I can.

Ushersgirl_06

always_confused Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have no idea if he visits the Kingdom Hall,
> sorry to be ignorant but i dont even know what
> that is. I'll find out for you though.
>
> Hey, thanks! I would like to know a little bit
> more about it, its kinda confusing for someone
> outside of it - if you know what i mean. I'll be
> back on here later, gtg for now!

the Kingdom Hall is like Church for us, its where we go to worship Jehovah.

well commenting on yall thoughts if a person should not be talked down apon because they married someone who is not a witness because the bible speaks about dont downing someone else and i know this because i have been a witness all my life and if someone did marry someone that is not in the truth than they are not to divorce just because he/she does not believe what u believe but as long as the mate does not prevent u from serving Jehovah than you love them as you would one of your spritual brothers and sisters and even envite them to the meeting.

Heroesdoexist, your concern is valid. There are many instances today of people being dictated without cause or truth.

However, when talking about truth, can all religions truly be "in the Lord" when all believe different beliefs, sometimes to the point of war, as we've seen in history and are seeing now?

As Jehovah's Witnesses we're interested in obeying God, not any human ruler or philosopher. Therefore, we take the Scriptures seriously as the thoughts and counsel of God, that is for our benefit, and that never fails.

Marrying "only in the Lord' is a way of peace, and brings praise to the Originator of marriage and the Source of truth and love: Jehovah God.

May I ask, do you have a specific faith? What do you base your views on?

Thank you for your strong words. You clearly are a thinking person. May we all have the conviction to truly understand what truth of God is, by investigating sincerely what is written for us to understand.

Aaron

Ursher's chick, pocketchange, I think y'all have it wrong. You're supposed to date and marry only in the Lord....how does that prevent you from marrying other believers? Jews, Muslims, and Christians are ALL of the same God. In the Koran, it even states that Jews and Christians are to be treated mercifully since they are both 'of the Book'. Aside from the straight-up WRONGNESS that comes from a religion dictating who you can be with, I'm just saying that if someone believes in God, then they are 'of the Lord' just as much as a Jehovah's Witness.

Like I said, though, there is something very, very wrong if you're letting an organized religion dictate who you can date - I'd say it's almost criminal. While you're at it, no dating white guys if you're black, and Japanese girls should stick with Japanese men!

I have no idea if he visits the Kingdom Hall, sorry to be ignorant but i dont even know what that is. I'll find out for you though.

Hey, thanks! I would like to know a little bit more about it, its kinda confusing for someone outside of it - if you know what i mean. I'll be back on here later, gtg for now!