People who truely care about animals don't eat them.
Submitted by veggiewords on Sun, 09/21/2008 - 16:46
I'm a vegetarian because eating animals and then making a big deal out of the cruelty they are put through is so hypocritical it is not even funny. People who love animals don't eat them. Is there really so much of a difference between cows and dogs? Pigs and cats? Aside from species they are the same. People are unfairly supporting something they conciously reject. What do you think?
I don't think it's that simple. Humans by nature are omnivores - that is, we are capable of eating both meat and vegetables. Yes, I have a problem with factory farming but that's why I eat organic, free-range meat that doesn't leave a short, tortured existence before it's mutilated and sent to a supermarket.
The circle of life shows that it's natural for some animals to be at the top of the food chain and others at the bottom. There's nothing wrong with that. What is wrong is that we humans are no longer at equilibrium with our environment ... but that's an entirely different topic all together.
Ok listen it is not wrong to eat animals or wear them because God put them on this earth for a reason...........ITS TO HAVE FOOD AND WARMTH FROM THE COLD!
But , I do not agree with torturing animals like the dariey farms do thats wrong and hurting them and all that one shot is ok I think as long as there not suffering
"Humans by nature are omnivores - that is, we are capable of eating both meat and vegetables."
Why can't we eat meat raw without the fear of serious illness like other omnivores? Why can humans live as vegetarians and vegans and live a life that is healthier than that of a meat-eater? Did you know our early ancestors were vegetarian/herbivores? Check out the study done by the University of California.
I am a vegan, but not because it is healthy, or because it is environmentally responsible, or because it is what we were meant to be, but because eating meat is morally and ethically wrong. I'm not stating my opinions, I am stating truths no one wants to hear. I cannot stand by and let people think it is okay to torture, mutilate, kill then consume another living feeling creature. Especially, when we don't have to.
How can people assume to know God's intentions for all of creation? Just because something was in the bible, does not make it God's will, the bible was written by men and men are fallible.
If your reason for eating meat is, "because we can." then I suggest rethinking your values. We can murder, rape and destroy, but we don't because it is morally wrong. You are probably feeling really pissed off right now, but take a second to think about way. Is it because you are so sure eating meat is the right thing to do? or is it because I am going against how you were raised and pointing out that your way might be the easy way, but it isn't the right way.
I am vegetarian and always being told I am weird, and that god put them here on the earth to eat, and saying this is like saying god put murders on this earth to kill. So really always saying this, your saying everyone is a killer. And life 4 all
is right about the bible, why do people have to assume that women can't do anything because its in the bible, if the bible said to jump off a bridge or kill a human, would you do it? Thats really what OLIVIA FLORA is saying. This is to OLIVA FLORA, doesn't god say never hurt any living thing, see when I go to mass in school, and they read from the bible, they say that jesus always saved us, when a man was being stoned, jesus told them to stop at once. god always says don't harm anything, and your saying god is just a killer, that in the bible he put that any animal should be killed, and here your saying, kill the animal I need the warmth, do you know what they go through? The torment, the hurt they feel. It takes about 5,000 or 6,000 chinchillas to make a coat. AND YOU CAN STAY WARM WITHOUT FUR!!!!!!!! STOP SAYING ALL THIS CRAP!!!! JUST STOP!!!! AND YOU CAN BE FULL WITHOUT MEAT. DID YOU EVER THINK OF THAT, DID YOU EVER HERE OF PIZZA, PASTA, VEGGIES, SOUP, ETC.. THERE IS MORE THEN JUST MEAT!!!!!
I think its okay to eat animals if you know there not getting tortured to be eaten. you may have seen the popular youtube video meet your meat, but there are company that do not treat animals as such.They are as happy as the ones in commercials. I once made the choice to be a vegetarian until i went shopping one day and saw and organic meat company i laughed to myself, when i got home i searched the company online to find out they kill the animal humanely, calmly, and so the animal their killing is basically just falling asleep i eat their meat and only their meat now! I'm very much encouraging you to find a company you trust and buy from them.
hi
I'm going to have to say, even if they are killed "humanely", I am 110% sure those animals don't want to die anymore then you or I. I don't think it gives them any comfort to know their death will be quick and possibly painless, but maybe they will be ever so happy they could die so a human could eat part of their body, the human could have easily lived without. Either way you look at it, it is still unnecessarily taking the life of another.
To earthlover97, you're a hipocrate. Do you know how much waste is produced to process meat? You think you lopve earth and help, but you don't. You need to rethink what you say.
And, how would you like to go to sleep and die?
No, what's weird, is how you spelt weird. No offence.
You guys are far too passionate, this is a very opinion based subject. You can't look at this in an objective manner, so we can't talk about hypocrisy and ignorance, because that goes against the system of equality.
The simpler fact of the matter, is that humans have progressed for 200,000 years by eating meat AND vegetables. We are natural predators, with forward facing eyes. If god exists, it would be hypocritical for him to be against us for eating meat, when he gave us predatory traits.
A lot of the animals we eat wouldn't be alive without us. Ever seen a cow run away? Or a sheep? They're slow as hell. By putting fences around them, we are extending their lives.
I'm against cruelty to animals, such as making them live on concrete, eating hay. Truly, cows don't do well in the wild. Nor do sheep. What would they do if they weren't fenced in, waiting for slaughter? My guess is eat grass. Like they normally do.
I just think it is better to extend a cows life by two years, milking it for consumption, then eating it. As opposed to letting it live in the wild, with a sore, infected udder, where it will be killed by a wolf, and left to rot. Same with a sheep.
To each their own I suppose.
To Tazzyken,
We are far too passionate? Perhaps you are not passionate enough. We are on the side of life opposed to death; we are on the side of right opposed to wrong. How can we be too passionate about the life of a fellow creature? There is no gray area when talking about consuming flesh. How can you talk about equality, when our fellow creatures aren't even given basic rights and freedoms, they are our equals yet they are treated as property? Every life has equal value; your life has the same value as that of a cow or pig. You only hold your life higher because it is your life, don't you think they feel the same way? They feel fear, pain, love, and joy just like you, so why is their death legal and commercialized and the death of a human considered murder and a sin?
As far as humans "progressing" to eat meat, that is simply not true. We have progressed to eat meat as much as we have progressed to smoke cigarettes and drink alcohol. We cannot eat raw meat, we have NO predatory traits!
Our entire physical design is that of an herbivore, extremely long intestines, rounded jaws, flat teeth and molars (the canines of primates are used for defense and intimidation.) We are a prey animal, our intelligence is our defensive weapon; it is very hard to eat an animal that can outsmart you. I can go on and on about the fact we are Herivores/Frugivore not Omnivores or Carnivores, if you what more facts and figures just let me know, I will even cite my sources.
Cows and sheep do not run away from humans because we are not their natural predators, also they are domesticated and that life is all they have ever known, they have never known true freedom. As for cows being slow as hell, the average cow runs about 17mph; the average human runs about 10-15 mph. I find that very interesting since predatory animals are not slow and we are slower than cows.
A cow’s natural life span is 25 years, opposed to the 4-5 they live on a farm. Also, cows would do just fine living their lives in the wild. They would have a hell of a lot better chance against a pack of wolves than a slaughterhouse, the modern day cows ancestor was the aurochs, and they could easily hold their own against a wolf.
As for a sore infected udder, do you just make stuff up or is someone feeding you these lies? A cow doesn't just make milk for no reason, they have calves first and produce milk to feed their calves, and to have the calves, the cows are put on something called a "Rape Rack" in which they are restrained and then forcibly inseminated. The only way to keep a cow producing milk is to continually impregnate her. The calves are then taken away from their mothers hours after birth, some will suffer the rest of their short lives like their mothers, if others will be put in veal creates and killed before they see their first year. The calf and the mother suffer acute anxiety and distress. A mother cow will call to her calf until her voice gives out. Just because they can't speak our language or express how they feel so we can completely understand does not mean they don't have thoughts or ideas and it doesn't mean they don't value their lives or the lives of their young. Rather then me just telling you, why don't you look it up and see for yourself. Try the Cruel Life of Dairy Cows and their Calves 2 on YouTube.
In summation, look your "facts" up and do not just make stuff up and pretend you know what you are talking about. I can't believe how ignorant people can be!
You know what. You're right. But while you're right about my previous opinion being ignorant, yours is arrogant. How can you say that you lie on the side of right opposed to wrong? This is an opinion based argument. I agree with eating meat, you don't. I think there is plenty of gray area between what is right and wrong. What if the cow wants to be eaten (given their poor life, perhaps they'd enjoy it). You can't just state your opinion as correct and expect everyone else to change. When I eat an animal, I still see it as an equal, but fundamentally I want to eat it.
How can I talk about equality and freedoms? How can you? Do you think given the chance another predator would spare my life, because of my hurt feelings? We may not be entirely natural predators, but you must admit, we are quite good at it. One could almost argue that canine and incisor teeth, forward facing eyes and a brain are quite good traits for a predator to have.
Murder is a sin because it is a human killing another human. Very few animals in the animal kingdom kill each other. Why should we?
If I were to be killed by another animal to be eaten, you're right, I certainly wouldn't be happy. But I would understand. I would realise that there was no malice involved. That animal killed me to continue it's own life. Given the same situation, I would do the same thing. Humans sit atop the food chain now, while the death of other animals is awful, they should understand. I disagree with the treatment of animals, not the death of them.
The choice to eat meat is still exactly that, a choice. If you don't want to eat meat because of how animals are treated, then great. All the power to you. I wish you the best of luck. But you can't profess to having the 'right' answer and question the validity of my opinion, because that goes against the aforementioned equality concept. In rebuttal to your final comment, I can't believe how arrogant people can be!
I have to agree on all terms with Tazzyken. There are 2 totally different sides to this discussion, but the one thing that this whole argument is lacking, is open minds. People have their own opinions for a reason, and this subject is just as sore and opinionated as the abortion discussion.
Now what you don't understand is that, yes, we were designed to eat meat. Do you have to do it? No. But you can't try and change a persons' way of life, and it is wrong for you to make them feel bad for living it. I myself, eat specifically organic food. But it's not because I have anything against meat, it's my own personal choice because I prefer the taste.
I don't eat meat. But I still am not saying that it is a negative thing. But, what I do disapprove of totally, is that you try to push your views on a person by making them feel guilty about what they do. And you should feel horrid for even attempting it.
I guess if telling the truth is arrogant, then I am very much so arrogant. That is perfectly fine with me.
On the subject of canines and forward facing eyes and a brain, once again we are in the order of Primates, which gives us those characteristics, gorillas have the same characteristics and are not predators.
Of course eating meat is a choice, and there are right and wrong choices.
Nothing about our physical anatomy even suggests we should eat meat. I'm not trying to make anyone feel guilty about eating meat, but by hearing the truth and then feeling guilty, perhaps that is telling you something. I do not feel horrid for telling truths, I feel horrid that people ignore those truths because they do not fit in with their own beliefs, and truths and beliefs are as different as night and day. I would never force my beliefs, but I will always force the truth.
Tazzyken, your right that most animals do not kill their own kind, but I said killing another human is a sin/murder not that we don't do it. We do it a lot in fact. Just one more thing humans do for (usually) no good reason.
Humans do not eat meat to survive, they do not eat it because it is what we were meant to do, they do it because it tastes good (when cooked otherwise serious illness will result) and because it is all they have known.
No one should suffer invain, no one should have to die for someone else for no reason, and if you disagree with the treatment of animals before their death, then stop eating meat. It's that simple but please do not claim to be against animal cruelty and then continue to eat meat.
Lastly, I don't think any animal wishes for death, even after years of abuse, I believe they would only wish for freedom and the right to life.
But you don't understand what I am saying. There is no truth to what you are saying. Our bodies were meant to eat meat. We lack the protein that is given to us through meat. Sure, there are other ways to obtain it, but not in the high doses that meat can give you. And if you took just about any science class, you would know that protein is what our body holds onto and stores as glucose to feed our body when it is under starving conditions.I know that now we have pills you can take for it, but a long time ago, meat was really the main source for protein.
You can try to say that our bodies weren't meant for eating meat, but look at our teeth designs. They are made for grinding up and chewing through something. And I guarantee you, it's not lettuce.
And yes, I do agree that there is no living thing looking to die, but it's how life goes. Things die, then the organisms higher in the food chain eat it. It's terrible what they do in slaughter houses, I know. But tell me what you would do if you were lost in a place that you had no knowledge of. Let's make it Alaska. You were stuck in Alaska, and had no way of telling what plants you can and can't eat [cause trust me, in Alaska you need a guide book to inform you or you could never tell the difference]. What would you eat? There are a lot of plants there that will make you sick, or worse. The only thing that you KNOW you can eat is the animals around you. Are you going to starve yourself with the little to no protein that you have saved in your body and die? If you said yes, then I'm going to have to call you either a masochist or a liar. Because nobody has the will power to just die from starvation if they know there is something around you available to put in your stomach.
Well, I have to tell you, you seem horribly uninformed. Do you have a source for your information? Is it from the 1800's? I have been a vegan for 3 years now and I have never needed to or been told I needed to take a supplement, because you can get all of your protein and essential nutrients from plants. Think about it this way, 20 million tons of plant proteins are grown to raise 2 million tons of meat protein, where on earth did that other 18 million tons go? You say you get protein from eating meat, where do you think the animal you are eating got their protein, you don't see cows hunting down pigs and chickens. If only humans would realize that by consuming meat they are killing themselves, killing/torturing other animals, causing world hunger rather than helping to fight it and killing the planet with some much soil, water and air pollution....I don't even understand how meat-eaters can think what their doing is okay? I could throw fact after fact at you and you would still cling to your Dark age notions of the world. Did you know plants yield 10 times more protein per acre than meat? I don't expect you to take my word for it; if you care at all, you would look it up for yourself.
You said our bodies where meant to consume meat, tell me why you think that.
If we were meant to eat meat, why can't we eat it raw without fear of illness? Even with cooked meat, illness is still a concern. I do not think that something we were honest to goodness meant to eat would cause cancer, heart disease, high blood pressure, high cholesterol and diabetes mellitus. I have never heard of fruits and vegetables to cause any of those health problems.
Back to the issue of our teeth, last time I'm going to say this, in primates, canines are used for show and defense, and yes our teeth were made for chewing and grinding stuff up and that stuff is plant matter. Meat eating animals, such as wolves, bears, lions, and so on swallow their meat whole. They lack the digestive enzyme in their saliva that herbivores (gorillas, humans, cows, etc.) have, which is why herbivores must chew their food so carefully.
Okay back to Protein:
"Protein: You don't need to eat foods from animals to have enough protein in your diet. Plant proteins alone can provide enough of the essential and non-essential amino acids, as long as sources of dietary protein are varied and caloric intake is high enough to meet energy needs.
Whole grains, legumes, vegetables, seeds and nuts all contain both essential and non-essential amino acids. Soy protein has been shown to be equal to proteins of animal origin. It can be your sole protein source if you choose." This is from the American Heart Association, check it out for yourself.
Lastly, about your whole Alaska scenario, I must say, you don't make a great deal of logical sense.
Let's say I was lost in Alaska, and let's say I was starving, if there are animals about, what are they eating? Depending on what part of Alaska I was in I could easily eat several of the different berry types found there, especially if other animals are eating them, they would know. Also, if I remember correctly cattails are completely edible. Now let's say there were no edible plant-life but for some reason their an large numbers of animals, small enough that I could kill and slow enough that I could catch, sense herbivore are ill-equipped to capture prey, I would happily die of starvation then be a coward and go against everything that I stand for. So for your sake, do not presume to know someone you have never met because chances are you are wrong.
By the way, some people do have the will power to starve themselves to death, they have anorexia nervosa.
Their is a lot of solid information in your comments, and you certainly have a good argument Life_4_All. But humans have a natural competitive drive, and we have a tendency to disregard anything apart from ourselves. I think that if we are to truly address all these issues, this drive is the first thing we must address. I think it's the true reason that we kill each other, unjustly kill other animals and have a (supposedly) democratic, capitalist society.
Physical anatomy has been rendered largely irrelevant. We can eat meat, and we most certainly will. We aren't supposed to be able to travel upwards of 20 mph either, and yet (thanks to engineering) we can. We can also fly. I think our lack of wings should stop that, and yet it doesn't.
Most meat eaters don't have a problem with the views of vegetarians and vegans etc, who do not eat meat on ethical grounds. As elycialeigh says, it's just the stereotypical non-open mind that it is associated with. I think it's the weighing up of guilt and normality. I disagree with the way that animals are treated, but not to the fervent extent where I would stop eating meat because of it.
What do you want Life_4_All, would you like me to be for animal cruelty? Is not eating meat a criteria for being against animal cruelty? I'm happy to head out and kill an animal in the most humane way possible if it means that it doesn't have to suffer. No moral human wants animals to suffer. Doesn't mean I am going to stop eating them.
I'm not saying not eating meat is wrong, nor am I saying that it is a good thing. I am saying it is still fundamentally a choice and that the unfair treatment of animals is wrong. They will die one day, as will I and as will you. I don't see how the ultimate death of animals is wrong, when it is inevitable. I just want the time they spend here to be good and favorable.
But if you don't want that opinion to be mine, fine, I will be on the farmers, consumers and economists side of the argument.
I am with you. I love animals and I don't think its right killing them. 60% of our water in America goes towards farm animals and most of them die soon from being butchered. I know all animals will die soon, but while there living why not let them enjoy life? Most chickens have to live there lives in a small, inclined area with dozens of other chickens not having the room to run. Animals should have the freedom every single person has. That might sound cheesy at first, yes animals can't talk and hopefully every understands that, but there living and breathing and they shouldn't have to face any cruelty, they feel pain to.
Tazzyken, I do understand where you are coming from, I really do, but some issues can't be left to "because we can." Until we stop killing others for a food source we do not need, until we stop benefiting from their life of torture, none of our ethics will change. Many intelligent men have made statements similar to mine.
Mahatma Ghandhi said, "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated."
Leonardo Di Vinci said, "I have from an early age abjured the use of meat, and the time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look upon the murder of men."
Leo Tolstoy said, "If a man aspires towards a righteous life, his first act of abstinence is from injury to animals."
The list goes on, but my point is, the very heart of this issue is, just because we can, just because in the most desperate of times our ancestors killed another to survive, does that mean that we should? Eating meat is nothing more than a barbaric tradition, which no longer carries weight in an ethical society.
Yes Tazzyken, we can fly without wings, we can move faster than 20mph, but have we built anything to change our internal structure to allow use to consume raw flesh without illness, or to prevent the inevitable diseases that come with eating meat?
You say that it is the stereotypical close minded vegans/vegetarians that cause meat eaters the most grief, all I have said are facts, the "non-open minded" vegans/vegetarians are holding a mirror up to society and understandably people do not like what they see. For me, I am vegan because I am against the death and torture of other animals, if I were to say nothing, if I were to stay quite, I would be a coward and a hypocrite. If you were to see a friend being murdered would you stand quietly aside simply saying "I would never murder anyone, but I am open minded enough to see that it is okay." I would hope the answer is "NO". I'm sure you would do all you could to prevent a friend's death. To me, it is the meat-eaters who are the closed-minded ones, I was where you are at one point in my life, but I was open-minded enough to see and really think about the facts and I changed my ways. You have never been a vegetarian or a vegan, even if you say you are okay with people who are vegans for ethical reasons that doesn't mean you ever took the time to understand why. I understand why people eat-meat, I know your motives, but you refuse to understand ours. Like I said before, this is a question of right and wrong, of life and death, I'm not trying to be self-righteous but it really is that black and white.
George Bernard Shaw once said, "All great truths begin as blasphemies." I would say that is the point we are at now, though we are accepted our ideals and truths are not.
I hear the death rattle of your argument as you twist my points and words to meet your needs. You think you are against animal cruelty, when by eating meat you are encouraging the cruelty, which you so fervently claim to be against. Even though you may have ideas against animal cruelty, if you fail to act, then your ideas of a better world are worthless. You said you would be happy to head out and kill an animal to end it's suffering. In this sentence you have show you find animals lives of less worth or you simply did not think your word choice through. I would hope you would not be happy but rather solemn in taking the life of another, but I digress. I dare say to end an animals life in a humane way to relieve that animal of suffering, if all that can be done has been done, is far different from ending an animals life to profit from it's death. In one case you end the animals life to prevent it from suffering from something that in no way can be helped. In the other case, you end an animals suffering from causes that can be helped, so by ending that creatures life you are doing so to benefit yourself and not the animal. So, in that case, it would not be a humane death. Continuing with the twisting of words, I have never said that the death of an animal is wrong, be it by natural causes, and humans wanting a steak are not natural causes. I speak only of a tortured and premature death, not of old age or natural illness. You say we will all die someday, and how very true, which means shouldn't we all be able to enjoy our life to the fullest since death is certain? I do not believe you would wish to live the way factory farm animals live for a week, so how can you ask them to live that way for all their short lives? You have always been on the farmers, consumers and economists side, so don't kid yourself about your morality in this issue.
To Kenward,
It is not "cheesy" to care for the life of another, and never let anyone make you feel lesser for knowing the truth and being willing to stand on the side of it.
See, now you have twisted my words. What I meant by killing another animal, is I would prefer to kill it in a humane way, to prevent it suffering (in a slaughterhouse etc). If you failed to see that, I apologise, my vernacular was to blame.
What you must realise, is that I have once sat on your side of the story. My rather pig-headed father owns a farm, and I have seen the suffering (namely mulesing on his Merino sheep) of animals. I have killed animals, and while I didn't see it as something to enjoy, it just re-affirmed for me that meat is and still will be a part of my life.
I have always disagreed with the treatment of animals (to the extent where I once chased the sheep off my fathers farm), and while vegetarianism was never a thought, my main issue was that not enough people care to make the difference.
I have read all of your facts, and while you make a compelling argument, I simply lie on the other side. Just because my perception agrees with the death of other animals, doesn't make me close minded. There is an argument to both sides, and I am trying to lie on a mid-ground.
I would not want to live the life of the factory-bound farm animal, which is the exact reason I am here, on an animal welfare forum. I just think they should be given longer lives, and better conditions.
Actually your vernacular was rather murky. So thanks for clearing that up, yet your clarification is a moot point. As my argument still stands, the suffering of a factory farm animal is completely avoidable. I'm not entirely clear how you have set, "on my side of the table." You saw animals tortured yes? You are not against animal cruelty if you sustain it. You said I make a compelling argument, I have presented a cavalcade of truth before you and as I said before, you cling to you Dark Age notions. It all comes back to "because you can." You have made no valid argument of why you eat meat. You said you lie on mid-ground, but there is none. All you have done is scramble to find some shred of reason to justify your actions, but you did not find any.
You say your main thought was that not enough people care to make a difference. Even if you are powerless to stop an act of great evil, you are never powerless to speak out and act out against it!
When you took the lives of others, did you feel any remorse, did you feel anything? Was there any moment you said to yourself, what I'm doing is wrong. Did those animals act like they wanted to die? Even if you took no joy in the killing, you did not oppose it.
I have one last question, if you were held prisoner and all you had to do was switch to a vegetarian diet and then be free to go or refuse an be killed, what would you do? If your answer was become vegetarian, then why do you hold so tightly on to you beliefs of eating meat? They must not be very strong beliefs. Meat eaters who say they oppose animal cruelty are just like people who speak out against wearing fur, but they wear leather coats and shoes. Or people who call themselves vegetarians, but they still eat fish. You wanting those animals to have better lives, but you still want them to die because you like the taste is rather self-defeating.
They'll die regardless, what's wrong with wanting them to have a better life?
I'm not interested in saving their lives, I only want the microcosm of time they have on this earth to be slightly longer and more prosperous. I just don't believe that the ultimate death of an animal is cruelty. Unfair yes, but not cruel. Cruelty to me is defined as an act of malice towards another, not a death for some use. I think hunting for sport is cruel, not hunting for food.
If that makes me against your argument, then so be it.
You're right, I'm a meat eater because I like meat. There is my reason and what a coincidence it is. Of course I'd convert, but to me, it is still fundamentally a choice. If that makes me so wrong, then fine, I won't be against animal cruelty, I'll sit idly by and allow you to speak for the animals.
Does it seriously just make you all feel better to belittle someone else's opinion? I remind you all that it is an opinion. And as an opinion it can't be wrong. It isn't like I come out here making violent e-attacks at your opinions. I'm just voicing mine, because after all, considering other peoples views is how we formulate our own.
Does it truly become OK to call someone a hypocrite, a coward or a liar because they don't agree with what you think? And you think I'm close minded.
As for your little scenario of course, that constitutes murder. In which case, I'd really like him to never see parole. If however, a predator such as a wolf for instance, took my kids, I wouldn't be happy. I'd hunt for that wolf forever. But that's not my point. I'm saying I wouldn't be offended. That wolf is furthering it's own life. Doesn't mean to say I'd like it. I'd want vengeance, or my kids, as much as anyone else would. But I could understand the wolf's point of view.
Death is inevitable, the only variables are how and when. The further away when is, the more irrelevant how becomes. This is what I want for animals bound for slaughter. It may be different to your view of animal welfare, but I still have the life of the animal in mind, obviously after my meat consuming needs. I just wanted for better conditions and longer lives, is that such a crime?
Whatever, I'll leave because I'm not having my own self-esteem belittled because some e-hard thug doesn't like the way I see the world. I don't need to convince anyone eating meat is right, nor do I try to convince anyone it is wrong. It is just a choice. It is right to me, and I'm not going to stop, I'm just expressing an opinion, and in my opinion the absolute concept of animal welfare you have is different. But it's fine, you guys have fun discussing the welfare of an animal you'll never meet and attacking others online, because I won't have it. Bye.
P.S To Life_4_All, I'd just like to commend you on a fantastic argument. You seem terribly well informed and very intelligent, and if more animal welfare activists were like you, the stereotype would be different. Perhaps if we hadn't met on such a delicate subject you and I could've been friends (which I doubt would ring true now). Keep up the good work and I really enjoyed what you had to say.
To Tazzyken,
You also gave a very tactful argument, and I appreciate your praise. It is very possible we could have been friends, and in that reguard I will not give up hope you will one day see your way to veganism. If that should ever happen, look me up and we will have lunch.
Both arguments were very good end everyone has a point. This may sound stupid to you but plants are alive too. I'm sure they don't love being killed either but you still kill them. Of course plants put up no fight and are relatively easy to kill but judging from the way you look at people who eat meat it is still murder. It was your choice to be a vegetarian and i resepct that. but you must have an open-mind. I know a girl who is a vegetarian and stands up strongly for what she believes in. She is also one of the nicest people i've ever met. The difference with her is she understands everyone else's point she just wants to share her views, but she does it in a way that she isn't mean to anyone who disagrees. It does not take much to prove yourself better. It takes a lot more to realize we are all equal yet believe differently and to accept different beliefs or at least try to understand. Have you ever read Lord of the Flies, perhaps you find it complete rubbish but it is something to ponder. The one main problem in the world is the close minds of people. If everyone was more open-minded, then people would be so much easier to get along with. I am not calling you wrong or ignorant or any mean names cause that's just not right. I am simply expressing my views and i hope you will take into consideration that different people have different minds. and I'm sorry to say that as far as meat goes it is the circle of life, plants, meant ,everything. If you wanted to kill nothing you would be dead, I'm sorry but it is true. Because even though you have chosen to ignore it, plants are alive.
To Tuttifruittiangel,
Yes, plants are indeed alive, and on some level, I believe they feel. They are able to respond to their environment and in some cases interact with other animals and plant-life, such as forming symbiotic relationships with those around them. However, you said to eat a plant is to kill the plant. This is not the case. In most cases, humans eat the fruit of the plant, which actually stimulates the plants growth and causes no harm to the plant. Why do you think many fruits put off attractive and sweet aromas? It is because the plant wants it's fruit to be eaten. When we eat the fruit we release the seeds to become new fruit producing plants. Tomatoes, peppers, apples, oranges, avocados, bananas, cucumbers are all fruits, because by eating the fruit the plant prospers. This is of course not true for vegetables such as from the tuber family, or to put simply, root vegetables(potatoes, carrots, turnips, etc.) Leafy plants that are regularly eaten by passing herbivores, also do not die from consumption, these plants have a remarkable ability to regenerate and continue to thrive.(grasses, herbs, grains, etc)
Plants do lack a nervous system and nerve endings which is what allows humans, like all other animals to register hot/cold, pain/pleasure, but this is nothing conclusive, there is much humans do not yet understand about the natural world.
Now TuttiFruityangel, you seem to think I do not understand the reason meat-eaters eat flesh, but the thing is, I do understand. As I have mentioned before, I too was once a meat-eater, my family eats meat, for a while my boyfriend ate meat (but he was open-minded enough to see the facts and took the time to really think about them.) I know exactly why meat-eaters eat meat. You like the taste, it was how you were raised, it's to hard to stop eating meat, or the stand-by "because we can!" (I am really tired of those three words, but that is what it boils down to every time.)
I do agree with you on one point though, "The one main problem in the world is the close minds of people."
I believe you also said, "It takes a lot more to realize we are all equal yet believe differently and to accept different beliefs or at least try to understand." Your own words sound hollow, as you do not abide by them. Vegans believe in equality more then any group of people I can think of, we believe animals should have the same rights to life, freedom and a happy full life that we take for granted. So don't lecture me about equality. I understand people have a right to choose, though the animals you eat do not, and I also know that people have the ability to make terrible choices, which is what I seem to see every time someone chooses to support the murder/torture/rape of other animals. If meat-eaters were truly the open-minded ones, if they truly made the effort to understand the plight of those suffering horrible lives and deaths of pointless ventures, and truly saw those suffering as what they are, our equals, then I have no doubt in my mind the answer would be clear to them. Stop the killing, stop the senseless murder! People would be shouting it from the rooftops, but the eyes of most are sewn shut and what is happening to billions of our kin a year is left to continue.
You say, "If you wanted to kill nothing you would be dead, I'm sorry but it is true. Because even though you have chosen to ignore it, plants are alive."
I say, "If you chose to kill nothing, you would truly be alive, I'm happy to say it is true. Even though you have chosen to ignore it, animals are alive." You have found fault in yourself and must now attempt to find fault in others. No one of us is better then the other, but I am a better person than I was when I took part in eating flesh and wearing skin that did not belong to me. My viewpoint is far more encompassing then it was 3 years ago, and I will take no life willingly. However, I will eat what a plant is willing to give and still sustain life, but I will not ask an animal to suffer and give up it's life for something I do not need to live, something we are both better off without. That is truly, "live and let live"
So, as you may now be able to see, if you can break through the stitches holding your eyes shut, I will not stand idly by while others die. I will profess the truth and maybe someone with an open-mind will hear it and see the truth for themselves.
If you must know the reasoning behind why I do at times eat meat, is because it's my culture. When I have family gatherings we have traditional foods. I do live in Alaska, and we use what our environment has given us. What we believe is to take only as much as you need and give what you don't to the earth. But when it comes to the non-family-gathering times, I eat strictly organic. Because I do prefer the taste. I don't eat meat just "because I can", I eat it because it's given to me.
In our culture, we believe that everyone's ancestral line originated by a certain animal. It is broken down by 2 moieties and further so into several clans. And each is highly honored even by those who are not that specific moiety or clan. For me my clan crest[animal] is the woodworm, and the moiety would be the raven.
If you want to tell me that believing in my culture is wrong, then you have serious issues, because I live by the beliefs of my people over anything. I am deeply one with my true roots as a native being and nothing that you or anyone else can say to me will ever change that.
I would also like to note that I am studying to be a veterinarian. And with that in mind, I do have the same goal in mind. Save the animals. There is no if, ands, or buts about what I want to do with my life.
And for what Hoenheim did to Tazzyken, it was wrong, and I was slightly embarrassed for what you said to him. Because he is doing nothing wrong by standing by his beliefs. No one here is. I see everyone's points and these people are fun to debate with. I would appreciate if people didn't come in and bully them away. I do have to say that Life_4_All is an amazing debater and it is really encouraging to hear her point of views because she doesn't falter. She stands strong and proud for herself and for her beliefs. She is the type of person that I wish this generation could have more of. In the words of MxPx "Our character is measured by the words we say" and she definitely has immense amount of character. Hats off to her.
To Elycialeigh,
I myself am of native origin, which may be one reason I hold so strongly to the truths I have stated. Farming-not hunting, homes of mud, wood and bark-not skin, and love for my brothers and sisters in nature. Other animals are our friends and our kin, they are our teachers and equals, and we must do all we can to protect them. I will not harm my family and friends, nor will I look down on my equals. Nothing could every sway me from the truth and what I know above all. No tradition will ever come before the truth, though I know not all feel as feel, that is evident. I do, however, understand your views. I would never say that believing in your culture is wrong, but I think you know that belittling anyones culture is not why I am here. I cannot believe that to honor your culture you must eat flesh, their is so much more to all cultures then just food. Artisanship, traditional dances, honoring those who have gone before. I do not know a great deal about the intimate detail of your culture, but I know that our cultures do intersect in many ways. I also appreciate your words, and I hope that others will see my words and I hope my words will instill in them the need to change their views on the taking of life and the eating of flesh.
If I may, I would like to ask a question about your culture.
You say meat was given to you, who was it that gave you meat?
You guys are getting upset that I picked on Tazzyken. Think about it. Did I really? I gave Tazzyken a scenario because they gave life4all a scenario. I put them in the place of the animals they were eating to see if they would like what was happening, and Tazzy didn't like it. I take that no-one liked it. Tazzy felt be-littled in a situation that billions of animals are in everyday. You should not be mad a me, you should be upset what is happening to the animals. I do not sweeten up anything I say for animals because the truth is very sour. If you want people to change, you have to start with yourself before you can preach to anyone else. Your embarrasing. I will back any human in a corner and point in there face to save lives. I will not spare any feeling you have, and I do not care if you log of and cry your little eyes out, because at the end of the day, you are still alive.
We believe that The Great Spirit provides us with the plants and animals that are prepared in our meals. There are stories of animals that gave up their lives as a sacrifice for our Pay off parties. Pay off parties are dinners devoted to honoring those who have passed on. And to Hoenheim: You could be more subtle about sending your message out. None of us are verbally abusing anybody in here. It makes this subject even more negative than it already is. We all have our own opinions. And opinions are what we're trying to get across.
That was my suspicion, that Great Spirit was provider.
Do you agree that there are many other ways to honor your culture, other than consuming the flesh of others? It just seems to me, food is the least important part of honoring ones culture, as who you are does not revolve around your dinner plate. I do not need to eat meat to remind me where I come from, there are many more important things to remember. The bison gave their lives in desperate times for my people, times are no longer desperate, and it is time to make new traditions. Traditions in which no one will suffer. We too have many stories of bison giving their lives so we may live. That was an act of kindness in our time of need. Since then we have taken advantage of the selflessness of others and now we force them to suffer, when will we pay back their kindness?
To Hoenheim:
I know how you feel, you feel there is no time to be subtle, you feel others are dying now and something must be done. Such urgency cannot be ignored, and I share your anger and despair.
It's funny how you are getting more upset with me for the way I talk than animals suffering and being killed. Of course I am not going to be nice to anyone who is contributing to this. If someone was trying to kill you, or has killed one of your family members, would you want me to sit down with the killer and be nice? Maybe ask what his point of view was being as subtle as possible, and afterwards say "good talk, see you later"? No. You would want me to notify someone of this horrible crime. There is a HUGE double standard between humans, and every other animal. Culture is no excuse to do what you do. You and only you decide what to do for yourself, not your culture, not you tradition, not your parents. This is the beauty of free will. You have nobody to blame for your actions but yourself. Murder is one being unnecessarily killing another, not one human killing another. Last time I checked it's, thou shalt not kill, not, thou shalt not kill humans. The same goes for stealing. You shouldn't be mad at me, you should be mad at yourself. As for verbal abuse, I have not called anyone a name or threatened anyone on here. If you can point out this abuse you see that would be great, because the only abuse I see is in a grocery store, at a restaurant, on T.V., in the paper, everywhere I look. It's impossible not to be angered and sad everyday, especially when no-one cares.
Dear Life_4_All,
I know animals are alive just as you know that plants are alive. And it is true that by eating some plants or vegetables you are helping them while that is flase with other plants and vegtables. I somedays do wish I could be a vegetarian. I have the will power and strength to but in all honesty I am unable. I do not have the resources allowing me to be a vegetarian. In my fridge i do not have all the items needed to be a vegetarian. I wish i could go out and buy them but it is not possible for me. This is the way i live. Things aren't always available for people to live a perfect life like I so wish i could. But for now I just want to survive maybe when i'm older i will be able to make a perfect life but it is not possible for me now. Nor is it possible for millions of people. Some people just have the problem of lack of proper resources like I have. But for some people of the world they can barely get food at all. The point is the world will never be one of vegetarians. And if it were it would backfire because of over population but thats not really the point.
The point is people have come together to fight a cause. This cause is against animal cruelty. The cause needs all the help it can get without fighting in it's own support group. We may have different ways to go about supporting the cause but it's a cause to support nonetheless and needs all the help it can get no matter the views of everyone.
Also"It takes a lot more to realize we are all equal yet believe differently and to accept different beliefs or at least try to understand." my own words are not hollow you just do not understand. The point of my words was not that I have completely mastered understanding the world. The point was to try. I understand what you are saying I get why this is important to you. I want you to see why it is not possible to me. The point of my message was that we are all different and have different opinions and we have ot accept it. I meant no opinion matters more than another. You believe one way and I believe my way, our ways are different and alike. But we have to undersatnd. Understanding is the foundation of peace
Tuttifruittiangel,
"Things aren't always available for people to live a perfect life like I so wish i could. But for now I just want to survive maybe when i'm older i will be able to make a perfect life but it is not possible for me now."
You do not need much to be a vegetarian, even less to be a vegan or raw food vegan. The only thing you truly require is the desire to be a vegetarian or vegan. I must assume you have not been eating only meat, since your health would be very poor. So if you have the ability to buy vegetables and fruit, then you have the ability to be vegetarian or vegan. I cannot comment much about your response since I do not know what your situation is, but I do know that no matter what your situation, you have the ability to choose what you consume. You do not need to buy expensive soy products to be vegan or vegetarian.
"The point is the world will never be one of vegetarians."
If we want to survive, as a species, we will become vegans. As it is the only way to ensure peace and prosperity for all creatures. We could feed all those in need of food, if people would become vegans, our water, soil and air would be far cleaner and no one would be harmed if hydroponic farming were used on a larger scale. There is a way to bring about peace, but no one wants to listen.
"And if it were it would backfire because of over population but thats not really the point."
Your right that isn't the point...because it is untrue. If people quit eating meat, there would be no need to continue to raise livestock to die for the pleasure of human taste buds.
"I meant no opinion matters more than another. You believe one way and I believe my way, our ways are different and alike. But we have to undersatnd. Understanding is the foundation of peace."
Having opinions and beliefs are not the same as knowing the truth and trying to open peoples eyes to what they refuse to see. I do understand, I know what must be done, but I can't do it alone, no one can. If we are to fight for a cause then we must fight for it, as if we are fighting for our lives, to make a difference we must commit ourselves totally! We cannot bring about change if those fighting are doing so half-heartedly. If you are to be for something, be for it with everything you have.
I am against animal cruelty and all that it entails. That is killing, eating, wearing, or profiting from the abuse of animals in anyway.
"It takes a lot more to realize we are all equal yet believe differently and to accept different beliefs or at least try to understand."
If you truly believed us all to be equal, you would not eat the flesh of your equals, no matter what the cost. I understand if you do not wish to reveal your circumstances to a complete stranger, but from what you wrote, this is what I see.
OK I HATE eating animals!! God put them there 4 life! I do agree that when u have bacon u CAN NOT go mack i've been trying to be a vegetarian for a LONG time i can not do it!
I really love animals, and I think you have a point to some extent. Many people love animals, and if you can go vegetarian or Vegan, thats awesome. On the other hand, many people can get very sick becoming vegetarian. I have tried to become vegetarian before but my doctor told me I had to stop. I don't eat vegetables, so for people like me, it is close to impossible to become a vegetarian. I see your point in the hipocracy of it, but I certainly would become a vegetarian if i could. On the other hand, I understand if you cannot, or simply will not go vegetarian. *i eat as little meat as possible =]*
I'm a compassionate vegan.
I love vegan dishes, and it's easy to eat healthily!
Everything you like to eat now can be veganized, then not only will your health improve, but your energy, your looks improve, including getting and staying slender, and your heart feels right since you're not eating who you love!
You can visit http://www.Veganize.com to find out more!
Well i am a vegetarian,but i dont agree that if you really care for them you won't eat them. I know it's horrible and abuse. some people have to eat meat my friends parents make her eat meat. Now that is cruel.Also i know people think ohh i wish i could stop but i forget Sometimes it's preventable sometimes it's not. for 12 years of my life i was raised on meat i havent eaten meat in 4 months. I still get the cravings for some of my old faveorite food like , teriyaky chicken i have to stop myself from eating it. Other than that i dont really get cravings. Anyone can stop they just have to be comitted
wait a minute.. saying that humans eating animals are wrong is just crazy, and saying that the truth is that humans are meant to be vegans is just crazy too.. yes people can be vegans, thats fine. what they do on the factories are tottally wrong and shouldnt be done! thats for sure! but lets see... we stop eating cow meat.... their put in the world to be there... and just make milk? we stop eating chicken.. and uh.. is eating eggs wrong too since their chicks just not developed..? people can have their opinions but you'll eventually will need your protein from somewhere.... if eating animals was so bad... it wouldnt be aloud.. its like telling a lion that eating other animals is bad.. and that they have to be vegans.. wouldnt survive. but thats my opinion..
Hello there, I am sure all your questions and false statements could have been resolved if you had simply read through the previous comments made by others and myself.
First, eggs are not undeveloped chicks, eggs are unfertilized, there is no chick, undeveloped or otherwise, inside. Eating eggs is very similar to consuming a woman's monthly cycle. Doesn't that sound appetizing? This, however, is not why vegans do not eat eggs. We do not eat eggs because the chickens, who produce those eggs, are so badly mistreated.
Second, you hint around to the fact that non-human animals are put on earth to fulfill some obligation to humans, that is the same as saying: in the 1800's African slaves were put here for the sole purpose of serving white people, or women were put here to fulfill their obligation to men. No one lives to serve or die for anyone else, other animals are not things, they should be free to live to their own end.
As for protein, I will take something from one of my previous posts now, "Protein: You don't need to eat foods from animals to have enough protein in your diet. Plant proteins alone can provide enough of the essential and non-essential amino acids, as long as sources of dietary protein are varied and caloric intake is high enough to meet energy needs.
Whole grains, legumes, vegetables, seeds and nuts all contain both essential and non-essential amino acids. Soy protein has been shown to be equal to proteins of animal origin. It can be your sole protein source if you choose." This is from the American Heart Association, check it out for yourself."
You said "if eating animals was so bad...it wouldn't be [allowed].." Where have you been? Did you skip out on history class? As I mentioned before; slavery, child labor, women's oppression, paternal rights (Rome and Greece), war, discrimination, hunting of aborigines (Australia), dispossession of the Native Americans, Holocaust, the list goes on. All of these atrocities throughout history harkens back to one singular truth, humans cannot see everyday cruelty. We do not interpret something as "wrong" if it does not negatively effect those in power. It always takes one person, or a group of like-minded individuals (Vegans in this case) to fight tooth and nail to bring about change. No one today would think of sending a 5-year-old child into a coalmine, no one would deny a woman the right to vote or disregard her if she sought help from an abusive husband, and no one would chain a black man and force him to do a wealthy white man's bidding, and someday no human would ever dream of murdering and eating the corpse of a fellow animal. Every human can live an extremely healthy life without eating the flesh of another or consuming another species breast-milk or menstrual cycle. Switch on your power of reasoning and see the big picture! This is not my opinion, this is the truth of things. If you want more proof about humans being natural vegans, read my other posts on this thread and verify the facts for yourself.
ok... Heres the dealio. I support and applaud anyone and everyone who wants to be a vegetarian. Its not easy being green. But there are a few things you need to understand about the whole animal issue. Cows,dogs,pigs, and cats are all equal but it is a taboo to eat 2 of the four listed simply because they are more likely to be domesticated. There is also an over population with these animals because people want to domesticate them but let them run wild during the day and have casual sex along the way and then they create undomesticated babies who arent taken care of and then repeat what nature tells them to do. Once there are too many they start depleteing there own food source, then they try to go find some alternative, then they cross a road when a car is coming...you get the point. This is a part of the reason we see so many dead animals on the side of the road. Now... Pigs and cows on the other hand are raised on farms and are very closely monitored so they don't run a muck. I know that not all farms are nice to there animals, those are usually corprate farms, but there are some who get better treatment then you and me. Japanese Kobe beef is made from cows who get massaged daily. You pay a pretty penny for the meat but it is an alternative. You can also go to a farmers market. The animals from here are treated like high maitanance pets until the day they die... literally. so the point of this whole thing is you don't have to be a vegetarian or vegan to be against animal cruelty. For instance... I boycott and protest the rodeo. You want to talk about cruel, there you go. I also search for and report mills of any sort, whether it be puppy, kitty, bird.. you name it.
I think that you have got it mixed up, when you eat animals it is not wrong at all! If eating animals is wrong then eating plants is wrong for these reasons
1.Plants grow just like animals!
2.Plants eat just like animals!
3.Plants are beautiful living creatures to!
4.Some animals eat plants so what is wrong
with eating animals!
Why are you so worried about these animals that are being killed when there are animals out there being tortured and tested on. Also humans are deliberatley killed so why are you not worried about that! I live on a farm and we treat our animals very well they have choices and big roaming enclosures! Yes, they do die in the end and I have seen it happen. It is really not that bad there bodies are not tortured at all!Plus isn't dieing the fact of life everyone and everything dies in the end! When you go to the market an buy meat I would worry about it, but when I eat meat I know how good of a ife that animal had!
I do not agree with your statement about the slaves, Life_4_All, african americans can talk and are intelligent humans. We realized that in the end, but have you ever met an animal that could talk or do anything intelligent that we are eating?
Doglvr4ever, god did not put animals here for life he put them here for us to eat.Did you know animals don't even have souls so they cannot go to heaven or hell, but I believe there is a higher purpose for them they, like they dont have souls they have something else and they go to heaven and become some type of special angel! YAY!
I understand that in ways eating animal is animal cruelty. And I understand that there are organic brands that kill animals harmlessly, but that at the end animals don't want to die either. But put in to consideration of how are world is structured. There is a food chain and when things go off balance it breaks that structure. With a break of that structure who knows what could go off. What if there was an overpopulation of cows or chickens? And then what if there isn't enough for them to eat? Or what if there become more diseases because of the overpopulation of cows? Our world is created the way it is and their could be major consequences if we break the balance of it. Like for example what if there was an overpopulation of some animal that eats birds. Then all the birds started dwindling in numbers. Then no birds could eat insects. Then what happens. Insects infest our crops? Who knows. We shouldn't be upsetting the balance that was set in our world. I respect vegetarians and vegans for what they do. But they shouldn't hate on people who do choose to eat meat. And some people need meat to live. Some without meat lose their strength or start having health problems. How is it fair to them if they want to become vegetarian? Meat has a lot of nutrients that we need to eat and yes, some vegetables provide that, but for it's not enough. it's all personal opinion and decision to be vegetarian. But I personally think if we all stop eating meat, the structure of the earth will get messed up bad.
There doesn't need to be a huge debate about this, in my opinion. It's simple supply and demand. You eat things made by cruel manufacturers, and they continue to make them. You're the demand, they're the supply.
[this user's comment has been deleted due to Do Something terms of use violation]
Hploeger, what you have said about plants growing, eating, and being beautiful is very true. Reaching back to one of my previous posts, let me address some of your concerns. "Yes, plants are indeed alive, and on some level, I believe they "feel". They are able to respond to their environment and in some cases interact with other animals and plant-life, such as forming symbiotic relationships with those around them. However, you said to eat a plant is to kill the plant. This is not the case. In most cases, humans eat the fruit of the plant, which actually stimulates the plants growth and causes no harm to the plant. Why do you think many fruits put off attractive and sweet aromas? It is because the plant wants it's fruit to be eaten. When we eat the fruit, we release the seeds to become new fruit producing plants. Tomatoes, peppers, apples, oranges, avocados, bananas, cucumbers are all fruits, because by eating the fruit the plant prospers. This is of course not true for some vegetables, such as from the tuber family, or to put simply, root vegetables (potatoes, carrots, turnips, etc.) Leafy plants that are regularly eaten by passing herbivores, also do not die from consumption, these plants have a remarkable ability to regenerate and continue to thrive. (grasses, herbs, grains, etc)
Plants do lack a nervous system and nerve endings which is what allows humans, like all other animals to register hot/cold, pain/pleasure..." Bottom-line is as far as we know; plants cannot feel...all animals on the other hand can!
"I do not agree with your statement about the slaves, Life_4_All, African Americans can talk and are intelligent humans. We realized that in the end, but have you ever met an animal that could talk or do anything intelligent that we are eating?"
I have to tell you, your theory about animals being unintelligent is absolute rubbish. So many animals are more intelligent then you will ever realize, but for time sake let us narrow this down to pigs, cows and chickens. All of which are extremely social intelligent creatures. In fact, several studies have shown that the intelligence of a pig is on the same level as that of a 3-year-old human child. Therefore, I guess it is okay to eat kids. On to chickens! Chickens do not just live in the present, but can anticipate the future and demonstrate self-control, something previously attributed only to humans and other primates, according to a recent study. As for cows, they are also extremely intelligent creatures, they fear, show caution, worry and fret, bond with their children, they teach and learn, they feel pain and pleasure. Last time I checked humans do all those things as well.
As for animals talking, they do. They can not help that you don't understand them. Ever type of creature can talk with his or her own kind and some with other species. On type of communication that is universally understood is the sound of pain, and
those creatures that you so fervently believe are stupid and worthless, scream in pain when being slaughtered, or when being dragged off the truck that has brought them to slaughter by wrapping a chain around their front leg and pulled with a forklift. Yes, everyone dies in the end, tis the circle, but dying a painful premature preventable death is not the way it should be.
"...god did not put animals here for life he put them here for us to eat. Did you know animals don't even have souls so they cannot go to heaven or hell, but I believe there is a higher purpose for them they, like they don’t have souls they have something else and they go to heaven and become some type of special angel! YAY!"
I have never heard such garbage. How can you assume to know God's design? If you are going based off the Bible, you could not have picked a worse source. You say animals do not have souls...you realize humans are animals. We are no different then any other animal on this planet. If you are assuming humans are the only ones with souls, because we can create megalithic structures, or sculpt a masterpiece or play like a virtuoso, then I ask you can all humans do this? No, so does that mean only those who do such things have souls? Given your logic, those humans born with severe mental handicaps do not have souls. Perhaps you should rethink why you believe only humans are good enough to be blessed with a soul. If your answer is, “it was what you were told”, then you should start thinking for yourself. I have seen countless cases where other animals demonstrate that they do indeed have a soul and have a greater ability to use it then any human I have ever come across. The Bible did not float down from the sky on a beam of light, it was written by men. Men just as ignorant then, as they are today. Blind faith in religion has worked so well for us in the past, war after war, genocide after genocide, why not keep it going right?
On to Rawraree, I read your post. Interesting work of fiction, really. Humans stop eating meat and cows, pig and chickens overpopulate the earth!!!! It would make for a great sci-fi flick. Now back to reality. Livestock on factory farms do not breed like bunnies. Cows, pigs, and chickens are artificially inseminated, or raped. As a matter of fact, when cows are forcibly inseminated they are put on something called a Rape Rack. Fun little tidbit to think about. In other words, cows, chickens and pigs would never naturally become overpopulated. By the way, about the balance and throwing it out of whack and what not. Humans eating meat has been one the most devastating acts brought upon this planet. The meat industry pollutes water, land and air. One example being, "America's top pork producer churns out a sea of waste that has destroyed rivers, killed millions of fish and generated one of the largest fines in EPA history." from an article in Rolling Stone. I told myself that I was not going to repeat the facts about plant protein, but I guess one more time can't hurt. So here you go, "Protein: You don't need to eat foods from animals to have enough protein in your diet. Plant proteins alone can provide enough of the essential and non-essential amino acids, as long as sources of dietary protein are varied and caloric intake is high enough to meet energy needs.
Whole grains, legumes, vegetables, seeds and nuts all contain both essential and non-essential amino acids. Soy protein has been shown to be equal to proteins of animal origin. It can be your sole protein source if you choose." This is from the American Heart Association, check it out for yourself." So here it is:
1.) Humans can live, very well, on fruits and veggies alone. You will die if you eat nothing but meat.
2.) Meat causes horrible diseases. Fruits and veggies do not.
3.) If a human lives a wonderful life and is one day kidnapped and slaughtered it is murder. If a cow lives a wonderful life and is one day kidnapped and slaughtered it is industry.
4.) Humans eat meat--> causes pollution, pain, suffering, and disease. Humans eat plant matter--> no pollution, no pain, suffering, and greatly reduced disease!
It is my most sincere hope that every human who believes that eating meat is not only right but also the way it is supposed to be, will wake up and see the truth of the matter. Take a good look at yourself, you do not look anything like a meat-eating animal, on the inside or out. Take a moment to look over my other posts and consider the facts, and check them out for yourself!
I have revised this posting upon a request that was sent to me. I apologize if I have hurt the feelings of those I replied to, but it is difficult to consider the feelings of those who are causing the suffering and death that I stand against. Why spare someones feelings, if they are not willing to spare a life.
This is a very opinionated subject. To be a vegetarian is healthy sure, but not exactly the easiest way to be healthy. We are naturally omnivores and our build is that of an omnivore. Our body requires proteins that come from meat. The world thrives on the food chain and the predators and prey staying in balance. Without that balance, the world would be chaos.
I have been able to stay away from beef and chicken and no be a vegetarian. There are other animals that it is natural for us to kill for food that is healthier and humane than the cow situation. Every year I kill a deer or an elk and it gives me healthy food for a year as well as control the animal population to keep it in balance. There shouldn't be arguing about it, it should be a way to find that even ground to get the cows and chickens slaughtered humanely because meat is a necessity in life.
Tiaslow,
Please look up your facts, before posting your assumptions. You sound like a poster child for Factory Farms and the NRA, or one of Pavlov's good little doggies, accepting any crap someone feeds you. If you would like me to clarify, simply read my previous posts. If that task seems to daunting, I will be happy to customize a reply just for you.
Life_4_All